The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

More info is needed yeah. Not everyone can use fighter's roll all the time tho. Not everyone play with WAR+buffers pt. Very often its 2-3dds in party and not everyone has War base attack + Berserk up 90% of a time, while also having kinda lowish pdif cap (WAR has no pdl on neck and only PDL II trait, so pdif cap is only 3.95, while MNK for example has 4.18, SAM 4.07, DRG 4.455, DRK 4.675). You also have Malignance set now, so MNK using few pieces in hybrid set can pull it even higher. So you need to remember that not everyone can cut all buffs for WAR only.

I typically run ddx2 plus buffers. Or dd+tank. Rune sam or dark are the typical partners I run with and capping attack is only slightly tricky on resolution spam rune. Sometimes a warx2 party but not on this month's ambu. I find running 3 dd in one party is massively less than ddx2 dps with proper buffs.or even ddx1 with tank. Unless you are fighting something really weak. And as I said in last post. Chaos if you need attack.

Long story short, not impressed by the dmg of chango. I get more out of naegling. not saying that there's a new heiarchy because peeps would start crapping out kittens, just saying chango is just meh to me.

What gear and buffs are you using? In ideal scenarios with both weapons. Then chango wins easily. With depending on buffs or gear then sure naegling can win. It is a strong weapon. Sounds like gimped attack and/or gear.

Sounds more like he is only looking at WS numbers and doesn't really notice that he is doing (or should be doing) 2x more WSs with Chango vs single wielding Naegling.

Yeah but people want to havr fun too and sometimes they play together with not optimal setups, so they use more dps because people like to dps, or they make groups with 6+ people (not for ambuscade obviously) or they are forced to play some jobs because its a mule with no other jobs, or they want to farm cards or RP or whatever else. Optimal setup to kill stuff is usually the most boring for most people beside DD. Thats why boxed mules are usually whm, brd, geo. None wants to play them if they only role is to buff one WAR and provide fun for him.

Chango is pretty underwhelming until you look at it on a parse.

Thanks.

This right here^^^^^ Read my post and knew exactly what I was talking about. Now everyone is coming out of the woodwork lmao
Where the stars aligned? Were you facing the right way? Did you have rolls? What's your gearset? There's defending Chango and then there's defending Chango and then there's this. Going to just ignore all the hoopla that came from my observation. The same way I learned to ignore the fact that Ragnarok is above Chango in this guide, crazy pills am I right? An upheaval and a Savage Blade WS, that's all I was saying, that's it, let it go. Still waiting for the regular stagnant trolls to show up. Can't ask or make a statement without the PC people getting offended. Yes, PC.
Wall of text not meant for Nitenichi.

1st post of this guide is extremely outdated, not even sure if gear sets are kept up to date so there's that

You are the only one trolling to be honest. You have came here, you have thrown some random numbers for your WSs and what was your intention? Starting a discussion? You got it. People gave you valid arguments, asked for your sets and buffs, so they can find what's the problem. You haven't provided any info at all and you are only sympathizing with answers that are supporting your point of view. So if you posted here, because you simply wanted to just see people responding with "Yeah you are right, Chango is not that good, Naegling is better" then make everyone a favor and just go make a linkshell, possibly made of your own mules and multibox a chat with yourself.

Thanks for throwing your 2cents and all the while remaining both positive and neutral. Good job, you.

The problem with Naegling is WS frequency. It's lacking compared to Chango or Montante +1 or even Dolichenus DW setup, I think. If you only look at spike WS numbers then Naegling is good but other options will parse higher. WS frequency means a *lot* when you are in longer sustained fights.

Savage Blade builds are workable because it's a strong WS but WAR gets better options.

He stated he cant get upheaval above 20k. that sounds like a buff/gear issue to me. He needs to post buffs/gear/party set up to really know anything. as i said. with ideal buffs/gear chango will easily out parse naegling by a ton. If he is using some oddball set up then naegling becomes more attractive if attack isnt capped. Without the info for buffs/gear/party set up we are all just guessing.
In high buff SB with naegling should be somewhere between 5-15k higher on average. Since he has savage winning by 11-29k then it certainly cant just be a WS frequency. It isnt that much stronger than upheaval with high buffs.Most like a combo of gear of attack cap (naegling gets a big advantage in uncapped attack due to the attack bonus). I actually agree with you that he is probably trolling. Annoyed i didnt see it earlier.

Most bards/cors i play with are usually dding. Geo will always be a fairly boring job no matter what you do imo. So unless you mean they would rather just play another job? then maybe, i personally rarely have an issue getting the party set ups that i prefer( I actually encourage buffers to DD or fill more than just the buffing roll because it makes the jobs so boring). Capping attack on this months ambu was never an issue even on bard/cor. bad party set ups on ambu seem to make that event drag on forever( this is really just a preference scenario vs potential). Some months ambu makes oddball party set ups pretty hard to get a VD clear. If we are talking sub VD then I really dont care about what set ups are used. But this is an entirely different discussion, if we want to talk DPS in non ideal situations then we open a can of worms that has a ton of answers and attack bonus WS like steel cyclone and SB on naegling become much better than they normally would be. Probably lycurgos/Naegling being ideal for those situations. Especially if running 3 DD. Naegling might actually beat r15 chango dps if your attack is below cap. I can only guess why their numbers are so poor, and my best guess is gear/buffs.

We are trying to figure out why chango is doing so little damage in your hands. You need to post sets/buffs/party setup.

we are not talking about "all" buffs. we are talking about one buff. chaos vs fighters. and for third time, if you need attack use chaos. however with sam or drk i find you dont need chaos either and only sometimes with reso spam rune, even that is going away with how much better dimidiation got. This can change a bit on wave three but not what I am referring to. Escha/HTB/Ambu fights. Perhaps with mnk or drg you might be forced to always use chaos, i dont know on them, perhaps we will see more of those jobs after the update. Pretty darn rare to see either of those at this time.

This would lead to a buff issue where naegling and other attack bonus WS would get an advantage. In which case use naegling or other options. Or are you talking about changing other buffs? like mixing ranged or magic dmg with melee damage? If not then we are ONLY talking about 1 buff that I stated can be changed if you need attack.

I agree. For me, just for me, a single Savage Blade is much stronger than a single Upheaval.

nvm just a troll. Agreeing with something that has been mentioned 3 times in the last 2 pages. i fell for it.

A typical case of "I see big numbers from a ws, why the hell would I use anything else?"

I mean if they want to see big numbers and only care about that. Whip out shining one and screen shot that 70k+ impulse whenever it happens. Or go /thf and smile every few minutes.

This wasnt your origional point.


This was.

You know that discussing ws avg is very very different from discussing overall dmg.

If your point was "fencer SB has higher ws avg than chango" then yes, this will probably he true unless you hold TP on chango.

Ive pt with war with fencer/SB build before, they avg 43k easily, which is much higher than most other physical WS at 1000 TP that float between 30k to 35k.

But the war with 43k ws avg didnt win the parse, couldnt even beat a cor with 35k ws avg on parse. That was our point. We simply asked you to check parse data for overall dmg and pdif (not just eyeballed ws avg) before making a generalized statement. Or else other readers will ask for more data and rightfully so.

LOL Afania please don't attribute that quote to me.

Why not just parse your SB WAR vs a R15 Chango WAR?

What are the must have AF, Relic, Empy Reforges?
+3/+1? Thank you.

From what I have seen in the gear sets AF body and relic head for sure. Any others you would recommend?

On top of what you listed, Af+3 legs and feet are must have. Then relic legs, empy head/feet for ukonvasara buulds. Empy body for blood rage. Empy legs for fencer. Empy everything anyway because whole set has massive potential for +3 even when you wont use it now. Relic hands at least for augment mighty strikes effect.

You sir are the man. Thank you
You sir are the man. Thank you.

All 5 AF+3 are useful. Mandatory are Body, Legs, Feet. Head and Hands are useful for high acc and/or PDT builds.

Mandatory Relic is Head to +3, Body and Feet are useful to upgrade for Aggressor/Berserk Duration. Not really needed because AF+3 legs are so good, but can be good for certain DA builds. Hands you really only need to +2 regular relic to get augment, or 109 for the mighty strikes.

Empy should +1 everything just in case for when they +2/3 them, but only body and hands are situationally useful right now.

Feet should be amazing once +2/3 comes out.

Feet are the best 1hr zerg piece for most WSs, head/feet can also be used for imo very underrated Ukonvasara build.

I don't like that they don't have any acc at all, and prefer a Valorous Greaves with acc/atk and 5% Crit Damage, you lose 2% crit damage sure, but you gain better TP/hit and acc/atk.

Edit: I'm dumb, feet do have acc, but I still think a well augmented valorous greaves should be better overall.

OMEN: I use R15 bravura for the survavility -50% DT with tiny sacrifices + Metatron Torment is not that weak anymore with 60% WSD & 70% WSD on gear. I tent to heal a lot less the bosses with this weapon.

Dynamis trash farm even W2-W3 trash farm: R15 bravura everything dies too fast, you have survavility in case "mistakes" happen i take the same argument as above Metatron Torment is not weak anymore with a R15-Relic.

Dynamis mini bosses "Tp burns": I use CHANGO warcry + 250 TP bonus earring + 500 TP bonus weapon. You will be using upheaval at 3k mark having only (1k tp) very often specially cuz 100% DA the tp-overflow will happen way too much.

Dynamis Wave 3 bosses or Zergs: I use CHANGO for the same reasons above. Sometimes when im bored i try Ukon or Conqueror but the question is: "Does UKON&CONQ "aftermaths" + upheaval at 2k is enough to beat chango's upheaval at 3k?

WARCRY "ON" (Note so you can understand what i mean with 2k or 3k stuff)

Ukon&Conq 250 tp bonus + warcry at 1k you will be using 2k upheaval
Chango 250 tp bonus + 500 tp bonus + warcry at 1k you will be using 3k upheaval

Ambuscade or High level battlefields: Chango most of the time. To be honest i dont think people will wait until you use OPO-OPO necklace build 3k tp for ukon&conq then delay the farm lol. "You will be lucky if the COR uses tp-regain thing and you start with 1.2k-1.5k during the pre-fight buffs"

Reinsejima-escha important fights: "Chango". Sometimes when im bored of or certain fights i use Ukon&Conq.

This is just my personal weapon preferences. "Also i feel the time the ambuscade weapon takes to create you can eaisly farm 200M gil to get your chango, you can farm 150M for bravura etc". Not sure if is that REALLY WORTH the time

Wait what? You mean getting items from ambuscade or getting pulse weapon? getting pulse weapon takes 0 time. You just get buff from gob in Reisen and just wait for 25k points to stock up from doing gain exp and other activities that also builds merits fast. If you are not in hurry, it's the most effortless way to get pulse weapon.

i personally do not recommend bravura at all anymore. It is a money pit that can be replaced with better options. when the hjarrandi gear came out we did a lot of testing on it. We compared this
ItemSet 367131
to
ItemSet 367270
ItemSet 367135
on 36 neak and 36 yakshi. both at r15. we used sam/fighters for half and sam/chaos for the other half. Chango won by a pretty large margin all 72 times. We made sure retal wasnt up on either war so to not skew the results. After looking at numberr we found that chango in hjarrandi will TP just as good or better depending on buffs with a considerably higher WS average with the same or higher WS frequency. Ironically the hja set is more durable as well. we actually didnt even waste time getting AMIII up on bravura just to try and get it to catch up a bit and it STILL lost by a lot( i think it was the last 12). Ranged from 25-40% behind.
Bravura DT is also hidden behind a WS that is better than it used to be but still pretty darn bad. Hja is instant and even more durable while way better at DPS. We also had other weapons beating bravura hybrid sets. The ONLY two advantages i see with bravura is for when you need acc and if you keep getting encumbered in your WS set.

Edit*** tempus fugit doesnt need to be hq. We also did not include SC damage. If we did chango was around double the DPS of bravura. Only the two war were engaging the mob.