|
|
Which Relic Should I Make?: A Guide
By Artemicion 2013-02-21 06:52:14
You can pretty much replace the word "Gungnir" in this post with any polearm other than Ryunohige and the post still works.
Assuming one is still devout to their fixation to DRG, what would be the runner up polearm in regards to DD performance? It would appear if one is going to take the measures and endeavors of time and money to enhance the class they love, they should do so in making a Mythic over a Relic. Until then, what are the viable choices?
Edit: I am an inexperienced idiot with FFXI formulas and derivatives, and I just so happened to page this thread.
 Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24215
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-21 07:01:35
Herja if you have a chance to fight Odin II, otherwise oat magian.
 Cerberus.Mindi
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 600
By Cerberus.Mindi 2013-02-21 07:07:08
well lets say it like this, i have a friend who plays casually, doesnt do any endgame event, really loves DRG, he can (and actually is..) very slowly working towards his relic Polearm. In no existing world or parallel universe it would be possible for him to make a Mythic.. really in non. He leveled some other jobs, but still likes drg the most. Would Relic Polearm the best alternitive or not? Atm he has the Fire Polearm so i am pretty sure that relic will be better.
I know we all like to say "use a real DD job", and we tryed to convice him in this way many many times, but he still likes drg no matter how weak the job is without a mythic. So would Relic be the best weapon someone can use who WANTS to play DRG and dont has the chance to make Mythic.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24215
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-21 07:08:22
I'd make an oat and either invest in another relic or pile up money to get expensive gear and stuff.
[+]
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 184
By Lakshmi.Harkonnen 2013-02-21 07:14:42
Do you ever get the feeling that all of the "Which relic is better, and Which relic should I make?" fourms, are starting to turn in into
 Bismarck.KelhorAdministrator
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 508
By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-02-21 07:19:34
Lakshmi.Harkonnen said: »Do you ever get the feeling that all of the "Which relic is better, and Which relic should I make?" fourms, are starting to turn in into
Two things:
1) The basic idea behind this thread is to try and consolidate all that stuff and give people logical answers.
2) What, exactly, else is there for people to talk about, anyway? It's a FFXI forum. It's not like we need a rollicking debate on Meeble Burrows strategies.
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4248
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-02-21 08:04:55
Lakshmi.Harkonnen said: »Do you ever get the feeling that all of the "Which relic is better, and Which relic should I make?" fourms, are starting to turn in into
You'd be suprised. I'd bet my paycheck you'll see a thread pop up within 6 months that starts with "I read through the relic thread BUT should I still make a gungnir because of (insert reason here)?"
*edit* beaten nicely by Kel
[+]
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24215
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-21 08:09:17
What if I have Feelings Power +100% towards Gungnir?
By kenshynofshiva 2013-02-21 08:11:21
its your money and your toon u special little snowflake do what u like....
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24215
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-21 08:13:11
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 508
By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-02-21 08:29:49
What if I have Feelings Power +100% towards Gungnir?
You'll still get outparsed by an AH PUP spamming Stringing Pummel.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-02-21 08:47:55
I have a question,
Quote: I could see resolutions attack penalty becoming a problem possibly after the defense adjustment
I keep seeing people reference the "defense adjustment", did they read something I didn't? On the forums they were talking about players defense vs the monsters attack being adjusted such that high level monsters don't get such large level bonus's.
 Lakshmi.ByrthVIP
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5499
By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-02-21 08:59:03
You're right, I think. The only way that it would affect Resolution is if riding Berserk/Last Resort suddenly became untenable due to the defense loss and increased odds you'd get one-shotted. If you can't ride +Atk/-Def JAs, it becomes harder to hit high enough attack levels to make Resolution good.
[+]
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4248
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2013-02-21 09:21:55
I have a question,
Quote: I could see resolutions attack penalty becoming a problem possibly after the defense adjustment
I keep seeing people reference the "defense adjustment", did they read something I didn't? On the forums they were talking about players defense vs the monsters attack being adjusted such that high level monsters don't get such large level bonus's. You're right, I think. The only way that it would affect Resolution is if riding Berserk/Last Resort suddenly became untenable due to the defense loss and increased odds you'd get one-shotted. If you can't ride +Atk/-Def JAs, it becomes harder to hit high enough attack levels to make Resolution good.
I did include several qualifiers in that sentence. I was kind-of just trying to say "it's not safe to assume that the attack penalty will never be a drk problem".
IIRC (I don't have the post in front of me) they mentioned the effect diminished defense would have on the player, and the desire to make returns of stacking defense useful "past a certain point".
I don't recall them saying they wouldn't modify things conversely (in the monsters favor) or the correlations involved after the 1-hand/2-hand adjustment other than saying that level correction would be different after SoA.
Either way I was kind of just hinting at the possibility of things changing in the unforseeable future. I also wasn't doing the Ragnarok introspection so I wasn't really trying to get into anything more than covering my *** from getting called out later (it appears I failed).
 Valefor.Sapphire
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1828
By Valefor.Sapphire 2013-02-21 10:14:18
I started reading this thread pretty sure of myself i'd never make a relic, but all of Keityan 's posts are kinda inspiring me to level sam again and make a yoichi someday since I could also use it on my rng :O
But then i'd need to make a GK.. oh dear.....
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-02-21 13:40:06
I know we all like to say "use a real DD job", and we tryed to convice him in this way many many times, but he still likes drg no matter how weak the job is without a mythic. So would Relic be the best weapon someone can use who WANTS to play DRG and dont has the chance to make Mythic.
The price of Alex has been tanking faster than a bunch of freshman at a frat party when the cops arrive, so my suggestion would be to sit and wait and make an OA2 magian, and see what happens.
There are 3 possibilities:
1.) He can never make mythic, but at least has a lot of gil saved to do something else
2.) Mythic becomes a possibility if the price of alex continues to drop
3.) SE adjusts Gungnir or DRG to make it viable.
Either way, he wins!
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-02-21 13:41:15
Someone has also submitted an alternate Amano post. When I get a chance I'll post it and you all can argue about them.
Shiva.Paulu
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 769
By Shiva.Paulu 2013-02-21 14:29:46
I started reading this thread pretty sure of myself i'd never make a relic, but all of Keityan 's posts are kinda inspiring me to level sam again and make a yoichi someday since I could also use it on my rng :O
But then i'd need to make a GK.. oh dear..... I'll admit it all sounds really fun and great, but those conditions to setup yoichi's potential are hard to come by. It's either against trash mobs or through extreme buffage in legion. If you're lucky enough to be taken seriously and not end up on another job for that event all together.
I have 99 Amano and Yoichi and I'm stuck as the "reliable stun SCH". Hell I'd even settle for my Nirvana SMN, but nope stunstunstun.
Still, that post got to me too, sounds fun.
Bismarck.Kelhor
Administrator
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 508
By Bismarck.Kelhor 2013-02-21 14:36:22
You say that like it's not an incredibly valuable thing.
[+]
Bismarck.Keityan
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 323
By Bismarck.Keityan 2013-02-21 15:47:25
I edited the guide so that it is less biased towards how I play my events, and more of how your event play can change the way you chose your great katana.
It's really hard to generalize "which weapon is best for each event" when in a typical day, it is not uncommon to use all 4 of them. I realized this when just yesterday, when farming ADL, I started off my run with:
1. Amanomurakumo+Lamia Kaman +1 for Bijou farming (It's such a fast bow, I even use this for Nyzul Unchartered for fast pulling)
2. Amano+Yoichi for ADL for 4.2k-4.6k+ Namas
3. Kogarasumaru for high buffed odious farming, and
4. Masamune while waiting on ??? pops for tomes. Then I realized that the way I had written my post, Amano would have my preference. While it is true, I don't want people to think that Amano is "the-best-thing-that-can-happen-to-you" in dynamis. Remember, it's based on the situation at hand and this can vary a lot.
For OdinII on the same day, I used Masamune+Yoichinoyumi and damaged it with Namas Arrow (it does ~2k on Odin with COR + BRD). The start of Odin II has many AOE dispels, so this is what I found to be the best damage source. Also, when links pop, I'm able to call targets and either use either Namas Arrow (does 4k+ on the adds) or use Tachi: Fudo and Shoha for hate (Since the RNG's would die if I used Namas even if all of them have Anni/Yoichis). I use Masamune because of its innate +20 STR since a lot of the start of Odin is ranged damage (and since 3 links pop at a same time, it's easy to keep Masamune's aftermath up). When a tank dies (we usually engage with 1 melee and 1 PLD), I go in with a 300%TP Meikyo-> Rana and switch to Kogarasumaru in a Hybrid set and Shoha as fast as I can in order to get hate (usually quite hectic when a tank dies). If accuracy begins to drop because I get dispelled, I instead use Amanomurakumo (Depends on madrigals and Aggressor).
Either way, I posted this so that the other Masa/Koga/Amano users wouldn't be offended because I admit, I can't stress enough that events/weapon choice can be greatly changed by buffs and situations. (and setups are when I play those events--leading to my conclusions-- may be different). If I sound like a biased "hater" for any of these weapons, have no fear, because I wouldn't have made all of them if I didn't think they all shined in their own respect.
Thank you for the support that the forum had provided me because it means a lot to me when my excitement about SAM can be extended to others.
Cerberus.Mindi
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 600
By Cerberus.Mindi 2013-02-22 01:54:38
You say that like it's not an incredibly valuable thing.
doing the "incredibly valuable thing" doesnt help when you are the one doing it 95% of the time and hate doing it. Your 99 Ukons and Ragnaroks and w/e eat dust in MH when you can stun.
Bismarck.Ihina
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3187
By Bismarck.Ihina 2013-02-22 02:31:24
Didn't read thread.
Only read the mandau section, obviously.
Throw in the fact that, if it ever becomes relevant again, you shouldn't use the mandau on something that you might need to sleep. Poison 'n all.
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 660
By Phoenix.Demonjustin 2013-02-22 03:17:48
Regarding Mandau for RDM, according to spreadsheets, Mandau(99) is best or second best offhand for RDM, depending on if using Excalibur or Almace in your main hand. Best for Excalibur, second best for Almace.
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4784
By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-02-22 04:31:05
Lakshmi.Harkonnen said: »Is it just me or does it look like he's punching himself in the ***?
[+]
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24215
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-22 04:33:10
Hey don't judge, if a man loves to punch his *** in front of a dead horse that's his thing!
Cerberus.Tikal
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4784
By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-02-22 04:35:56
[+]
Ragnarok.Sogomi
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16
By Ragnarok.Sogomi 2013-02-24 00:17:44
I don't think the Apocalypse analysis generated any controversy because Ashman did an excellent job with it. My only input is that the Aftermath duration is 20/40/60 seconds.
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-02-24 00:31:13
I'll make the edit to the Mandau section about the poison since I think that's worth mentioning. And hopefully activate a few more analyses tomorrow.
Sorry I'm way behind on all this, I've been taking a few-day internet break due to thesis proposal being due, + midterms, + everyone at work having the flu and leaving me with their workload, but I'm glad good things have already come out of this thread! :)
(If anyone would like to volunteer to help me proofread, and post things, send me a PM and we'll work something out!)
 Bahamut.Yukisoba
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 32
By Bahamut.Yukisoba 2013-02-24 02:21:04
I'm stuck as the "reliable stun SCH". I know your feels. :(
Bismarck.Amphion
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 27
By Bismarck.Amphion 2013-02-24 09:20:24
I don't think the Apocalypse analysis generated any controversy because Ashman did an excellent job with it. My only input is that the Aftermath duration is 20/40/60 seconds.
Yeah, that is as good of an Apoc write up as we're going to get really. Same goes for Keityan's Amano analysis. I think those two need to be front paged asap.
|
|
