Best Sword Combinations Now? |
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Best Sword Combinations Now?
Bahamut.Suph said: » Thibron TP Bonus assuming 99% Acc Tizona and 70% acc Thibron 100 TP per swing Why are you assuming this >.> Accuracy is capped for Thibron in almost everywhere. It will be capped for 2-4 sword too. I by no means think that Khadga is better, but I have no idea why people think you are not accuracy capped with lv99 swords. Assuming 95% off hand acc cap, it's still 3.7 rounds to 1000 TP for Thibron and 2.4 rounds for Khadga.
So Thibron is about 57% slower 9.4 / 1.57 = 6.18 3.8 / 1.00 = 3.8 Thibron still win by 62.5% so Doesn't matter really, point stand whether you're doing content with ceiling or floor hit rate on the off hand, Thibron is better than Khadga by quite a bit
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Bahamut.Suph said: » 99% Acc Tizona and 70% acc Thibron 25% acc under cap is -50 accuracy, Thibron is 225~260 accuracy under main hand or -112.5% ~ 130% under main hand. Accuracy is averaged between your hands, each rolls it's own separate accuracy check with it's own accuracy. This means that if your main hand is exactly at 99% hit rate, then Thibron would be at -15% ~ -35% hit rate, as monsters have a 80% evasion cap so you'd be at about 20% hit rate (parries are their own thing). To raise that off hand accuracy to cap you'd have to add 220~260 accuracy in buffs that would put your main hand, and everyone else in the party / alliance, at 214% ~ 229% hit rate, capped at 99%. It's this descrepency that creates the situation where you, and everyone else, are either stupidly over-capped on accuracy, or everyone is about right and your stupidly under-capped on your off hand. There is no middle ground, it's either one or the other due to the vast differences in natural accuracy between your hands. Now if someone's in a fight where they are already overpowering the monster to the point where no special buffs are needed, then it's fine and why are we talking about that again? If it's a fight that's actually important, then they are going to have to convince everyone else to redo the alliance buffs to specifically support them, and just tell everyone else to go stuff it cause they are more important. Anyone can run faster then Usain Bolt, when we break his legs.
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Bahamut.Suph said: » I mean it's like this Thibron TP Bonus assuming 99% Acc Tizona and 70% acc Thibron 100 TP per swing Tizona swing Thibron swing 1 x 0.4 = 0.4 1 x 1 = 1 2 x 0.4 = 0.8 3 x 0.2 = 0.6 Total 1.8 (64%) + 1.0 (36%) = 2.8 (100%) x Accuracy 0.99 0.7 Acc. Adj. Swg 1.78(72%) + 0.7( 28%) = 2.48 (100%) So this is 2.48 landed swings per round or a bit over 4 rounds for 1000 TP For Khadga assuming 99% Acc Tizona and 70% acc Khadga 100 TP per swing Equal distribution of Khadga to swing 1 - 4 Tizona swing Khadga swing 1 x 0.4 = 0.4 1 x 0.25 = 0.25 2 x 0.4 = 0.8 2 x 0.25 = 0.50 3 x 0.2 = 0.6 3 x 0.25 = 0.75 4 x 0.25 = 1 Total 1.8 (42%) + 2.5 (58%) = 4.3 (100%) x Accuracy 0.99 0.7 Acc. Adj. Swg 1.78(59%) + 1.75 (42%) = 3.53 (100%) So this is 3.53 landed swings per round or a bit over 2.8 rounds for 1000 tp 4 / 2.8 = 1.42 so about 42% lower WS frequency for Thibron Now with TP Bonus Thibron, 1000 TP = FTP of 9.4 While Khadga 2 - 4, 1000 TP = FTP of 3.8 Thibron FTP 9.4 / 1.42 = 6.6 While Khadga FTP 3.8 / 1 = 3.8 6.6 / 3.8 = 1.74 Thibron TP Bonus deals about 74% more damage from these assumptions. Now of course DA/TA etc will mess with this number as well as TP overflow but, this simple calculation should show you why Thibron is viable and Khadga isn't (Also, the lower the acc on the off hand, the more the scale will tips toward Thibron) Thank you, this makes complete sense. Asura.Frod said: » Phoenix.Bridgerbot said: » Asura.Frod said: » Asura.Eiryl said: » no, they're specifically using acc buffs and gear to make up for it That’s my thoughts on the Tp bonus weapon. I suspect you’d wiff enough on it to not be as useful. So if the tp bonus weapon is stupid to use, so would be the 2-4x hit weapon. If they actually work, they should both work. The tp bonus applies to the weaponskill which is based off the mainhand weapon, so it has viability. the da/qa will proc with and use the weapon that has that stat, making it piss poor as a tp gain tool since that weapon itself will need ridiculous amounts of acc to get a decent hit rate. Bahamut.Suph said: » I mean it's like this Thibron TP Bonus assuming 99% Acc Tizona and 70% acc Thibron 100 TP per swing Tizona swing Thibron swing 1 x 0.4 = 0.4 1 x 1 = 1 2 x 0.4 = 0.8 3 x 0.2 = 0.6 Total 1.8 (64%) + 1.0 (36%) = 2.8 (100%) x Accuracy 0.99 0.7 Acc. Adj. Swg 1.78(72%) + 0.7( 28%) = 2.48 (100%) So this is 2.48 landed swings per round or a bit over 4 rounds for 1000 TP For Khadga assuming 99% Acc Tizona and 70% acc Khadga 100 TP per swing Equal distribution of Khadga to swing 1 - 4 Tizona swing Khadga swing 1 x 0.4 = 0.4 1 x 0.25 = 0.25 2 x 0.4 = 0.8 2 x 0.25 = 0.50 3 x 0.2 = 0.6 3 x 0.25 = 0.75 4 x 0.25 = 1 Total 1.8 (42%) + 2.5 (58%) = 4.3 (100%) x Accuracy 0.99 0.7 Acc. Adj. Swg 1.78(59%) + 1.75 (42%) = 3.53 (100%) So this is 3.53 landed swings per round or a bit over 2.8 rounds for 1000 tp 4 / 2.8 = 1.42 so about 42% lower WS frequency for Thibron Now with TP Bonus Thibron, 1000 TP = FTP of 9.4 While Khadga 2 - 4, 1000 TP = FTP of 3.8 Thibron FTP 9.4 / 1.42 = 6.6 While Khadga FTP 3.8 / 1 = 3.8 6.6 / 3.8 = 1.74 Thibron TP Bonus deals about 74% more damage from these assumptions. Now of course DA/TA etc will mess with this number as well as TP overflow but, this simple calculation should show you why Thibron is viable and Khadga isn't (Also, the lower the acc on the off hand, the more the scale will tips toward Thibron) Theres a much easier way to demonstrate this, since you wouldnt WS at 1000 tp with Khadga anyways. Assuming 250 TP bonus earring, you'd WS at 1750 with a non TP Bonus offhand for a total of 2000. That parts a no brainer, since at 2000 TP your ws dmg over doubles, so for less than double TP you do over double the dmg. Its just a given. Whereas with Thibron, you Ws at 1000 TP and have 1250 TP bonus for a total of 2250 TP. That puts you at 9.390625 FTP vs 10.7890625 (10.7890625 - 9.390625 ) / 9.390625 = 0.14891846921 So a Thibron WS at 1000 TP will do a hair short of 15% more WS dmg than a Khadga WS at 1750 TP. That means Khadga need sto hit 1750 TP in 87% of the time it takes Thibron to hit 1000 TP. 1000 / 248 = 4.03225806452 rounds with Thibron 1750 / 353 = 4.95750708215 rounds with Khadga You would need to hit 1750 TP in 3.5 rounds with Khadga. But instead, Khadga actually takes MORE rounds to hit 2K effective TP than Thibron does, savvy? soralin said: » Theres a much easier way to demonstrate this, since you wouldnt WS at 1000 tp with Khadga anyways. Assuming 250 TP bonus earring, you'd WS at 1750 with a non TP Bonus offhand for a total of 2000. That parts a no brainer, since at 2000 TP your ws dmg over doubles, so for less than double TP you do over double the dmg. Its just a given. Whereas with Thibron, you Ws at 1000 TP and have 1250 TP bonus for a total of 2250 TP. That puts you at 9.390625 FTP vs 10.7890625 (10.7890625 - 9.390625 ) / 9.390625 = 0.14891846921 So a Thibron WS at 1000 TP will do a hair short of 15% more WS dmg than a Khadga WS at 1750 TP. That means Khadga need sto hit 1750 TP in 87% of the time it takes Thibron to hit 1000 TP. 1000 / 248 = 4.03225806452 rounds with Thibron 1750 / 353 = 4.95750708215 rounds with Khadga You would need to hit 1750 TP in 3.5 rounds with Khadga. But instead, Khadga actually takes MORE rounds to hit 2K effective TP than Thibron does, savvy? Good logic, bad execution. I basically wrote similar comment yesterday, but deleted it, because it was showing the same thing, that Khadga would be too slow to make up for TP bonus. Why I say bad execution? soralin said: » Assuming 250 TP bonus earring, you'd WS at 1750 with a non TP Bonus offhand for a total of 2000. That parts a no brainer, since at 2000 TP your ws dmg over doubles, so for less than double TP you do over double the dmg. Its just a given. This isn't true in theory and its actually really bad in practice. Let's start with Theory. 1250TP Expacion (Khadga at 1000TP + Moonshade) is around ~5.2 FTP, so WSing at 1750 + Moonshade is not over doubles the dmg with it's ~9.4 fTP . Now if you add 2nd hit and possible MA from AM3, over double dmg would be even further from truth. The was theory, now practice. In practice your set would have around 80+ store TP. Your avg number of hits per round would be around 4. The chance for getting anywhere near 1000 and 1750 values would be super small. If you add decent Samurai roll to that, you will very rarely WS at close to 1000TP vs 1750TP, because TP overflow will be very high. soralin said: » 1000 / 248 = 4.03225806452 rounds with Thibron 1750 / 353 = 4.95750708215 rounds with Khadga How did you get 353 TP per round for Khadga and 248 for Thibron. Why are you search for avg number of round from 0TP, when you would start with TP from WS? Asura.Saevel said: » 25% acc under cap is -50 accuracy, Thibron is 225~260 accuracy under main hand or -112.5% ~ 130% under main hand. Accuracy is averaged between your hands, each rolls it's own separate accuracy check with it's own accuracy. This means that if your main hand is exactly at 99% hit rate, then Thibron would be at -15% ~ -35% hit rate, as monsters have a 80% evasion cap so you'd be at about 20% hit rate (parries are their own thing). Ok, comparing Thibron and Almace using my Stat  Tiz + Thib Assuming floor Acc for Thib Just tested TP per hit = 102 Tizona _____ Thibron 1 x 0.4 = 0.4 1 x 1 = 1 2 x 0.4 = 0.8 3 x 0.2 = 0.6 Total = 1.8 _____ = 1 Acc Adj = 0.99____ 0.2 Hit/Round 1.782 + 0.2 = 1.982 TP/Round = 1.982 x 102 = 202 = 5 rounds for 1010 TP Add Thibron and Moonshade = 1010 + 1000 + 250 = 2260 FTP = 9.4 + (12.2 - 9.4) x 0.26 = 10.128 Tizona Base Damage: 147 STR = 101 + 195 = 296 x 0.3 = 88.8 INT = 094 + 146 = 240 x 0.3 = 72.0 DEX = 098 + 189 = 287 x 0.2 = 57.4 Damage = (147 + 88.8 + 72.0 + 57.4) x 10.128 Damage = 3698.75 Tizona + Al's mace Assuming max Acc for Almace Tested with my Almace(90) TP per hit is 98 but will use 102 Tizona _____ Almace 1 x 0.4 = 0.4 1 x 1 = 1 2 x 0.4 = 0.8 3 x 0.2 = 0.6 Total = 1.8 ______ = 1 Acc Adj = 0.99_____ 0.95 Hit/Round 1.782 + 0.95 = 2.732 TP/Round = 2.732 x 102 = 279 = 4 rounds for 1116 TP or 6 rounds for 1674 TP or 7 round for 1935 TP Add Moonshade = 4R = 1366 or 6R = 1924 or 7R = 2203 4R FTP = 3.8 + (9.4 - 3.8) x 0.366 = 5.816 6R FTP = 3.8 + (9.4 - 3.8) x 0.924 = 8.974 7R FTP = 9.4 + (12.2 - 9.4) x 0.203 = 9.968 Tizona Base Damage: 147 STR = 101 + 195 = 296 x 0.3 = 88.8 INT = 094 + 146 = 240 x 0.3 = 72.0 DEX = 098 + 189 + 50 = 337 x 0.2 = 67.4 4R Damage = (147 + 88.8 + 72.0 + 67.4) x 5.816 4R Damage = 2182.16 6R Damage = (147 + 88.8 + 72.0 + 67.4) x 8.974 6R Damage = 3367.20 7R Damage = (147 + 88.8 + 72.0 + 67.4) x 9.968 7R Damage = 3740.14 Compare Thibron to 4R Almace (5R vs 4R = 1.25 = 25% more WS frequency for Almace) Thib = 3698.75 4RAL = 2182.16 * 1.25 = 2727.70 Thib / 4RAL = 3698.75/2727.70 = 1.356 vs 6R Almace (5R vs 6R = 1.2 = 20% more WS frequency for Thib) Thib = 3698.75 x 1.2 = 4438.50 6RAL = 3367.20 Thib / 6RAL = 4438.50/3367.20 = 1.318 vs 7R Almace (5R vs 7R = 1.4 = 40% more WS frequency for Thib) Thib = 3698.75 x 1.4 = 5178.24 6RAL = 3740.14 Thib / 7RAL = 5178.24/3740.14 = 1.385 so comparing Thibron at 20% accuracy and Almace at 95% accuracy, offhand Thibron still deal at least 31.8% more damage than offhand Almace So unless you need more accuracy on Tizona from the +50 Dex of Almace, Thibron is just fine And with Tiz + Thib, your acc won't be too bad  And this BLU is an unmastered 2nd tier job of a player in the buttom quartile of his LS that never get to bring BLU to events so, if your group's BLU need Almace for Dyna D, perhaps your group just isn't ready for end game? I said MANY times that you can easily get Thibron to 1100 accuracy and less easily to 1200 accuracy BEFORE FOOD AND BUFFS. That means you will have CAPPED accuracy with Thibron on most things in endgame.
Saevel probably put me on blist or just ignores facts that are not suited for his theory like he always does.
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Just to back my words. This is high accuracy set for Tizona/Thibron that still have (with traits) 16%TA, 13%DA, +79 STP.
 It has 1171 accuracy with Thibron, but would have ~1186 with +3 feet and R25 on neck (I have R20 atm). You can increase accuracy further by equipping Chirich rings +1 and switching 1 tier of STP trait to 1 tier of accuracy trait. That would push you to ~1210 accuracy with Thibron, before any buffs.
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Is DW capped in that set? I guess it would be almost entirely from spells if just using Adhemar body. What is the spell combination to hit the cap in that set?
Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Is DW capped in that set? I guess it would be almost entirely from spells if just using Adhemar body. What is the spell combination to hit the cap in that set? Yes, DW is capped. If you need Tenebral Crush, you can drop DW tier, change White Wind to Fruit (or drop barrier tusk) and right earring to Suppa. You would lose 6 accuracy. Code <slot01>cocoon</slot01>
<slot02>tail slap</slot02>
<slot03>sickle slash</slot03>
<slot04>diffusion ray</slot04>
<slot05>anvil lightning</slot05>
<slot06>empty thrash</slot06>
<slot07>erratic flutter</slot07>
<slot08>fantod</slot08>
<slot09>delta thrust</slot09>
<slot10>white wind</slot10>
<slot11>barrier tusk</slot11>
<slot12>nat. meditation</slot12>
<slot13>sudden lunge</slot13>
<slot14>thrashing assault</slot14>
<slot15>vanity dive</slot15>
<slot16>barbed crescent</slot16>
<slot17>disseverment</slot17>
<slot18>molting plumage</slot18>
<slot19>occultation</slot19>
<slot20>heavy strike</slot20>EDIT: Funny fact. If you switch Thibron to Naegling with this set and add chirich rings +1 and last Accuracy trait, then you would be pushing almost 1500 accuracy with Tizona and slightly less with Naegling before buffs and food. That's probably one of the highest accuracy builds in game and with that massive amount of store tp and AM3 on Tizona you would still make TP very fast. BLU ftw :P
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Lolz at passive aggressive attacks. 226 accuracy difference proven.
Asura.Saevel said: » Lolz at passive aggressive attacks. 226 accuracy difference proven. So you just wanted to point out that Thibron has less accuracy without implying that it would result in low hit rate yes? So in other way you wanted to write that you know how much accuracy is 242-269 combat skill and how that accuracy transfers to hit rate? Good job Saevel, your wisdom is overhelming.
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The obvious answer is Excalibur greatest sword of all times.
Psh, Onion Sword is where it's at, bishes!
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I don't even have an afterglow'd tizona, let alone a rank 15 one, but I just wanted to give a shout out to the math-magicians on both side of the argument that make it possible to find out the best way to kick butt. You da real mvp
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Now, can the magicians do Sequence/thib (I’d say Almace CDC spam but that requires skillchaincalculations and sadly I think my time investment in abysses may have gone to waste so I’ll leave it simple) vs tiz/thib? I know Tiz wins but I have 3 RMEA swords already and would like my next RMEA to be more beneficial to my multiboxing (yag,darude,masa/doji,epeo,etc). However, if Tiz is like 50% more TOTAL damage over sequence or Naegling then maybe it’s worth it over the others considering most things I do has a bard and geo for accuracy if needed. Thanks!
Personally I wouldn't bother with sequence at all. Naegling/Thib is in practice better for Savage. Tizona/Thib is way better for endgame, because high accuracy sets on BLU provides tons of store TP but less MA, so AM3 from Tiozona is amazing there.
Sequence would only be good for scenario where you want to make Savage Blade, but also can't get enough accuracy to use Thibron offhand, but you most likely might also miss attack then and again Naegling jumps in with it's attack buff. Tizona is also amazing for your MP and if you are playing "friendly neighborhood blue-man" and spam some white winds and refresh Mighty Guard every time, then you might be in MP troubles unless you have something to Magic Hammer for MP (but that also means you need points to set MH).
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I can also definitely see how Naeglings +47 acc synergizes well with the low acc offhand strat.
Not really new information, but just wanted to give a field report of sorts. Tiz is obviously still king of the hill but for those like me that simply won't make mythics, Naegling/Thib Savage Blade is a damn beast.
I made a slight modification to my DD spell setup, but I literally have not had to make ANY accuracy swaps to cap until Dyna Wave 2 NMs, and even then I was parsing 90% accuracy without the swap, with nothing but sushi and honor march for acc buffs. TP set with traits has 31% TA, 35% DA, and 62 stp, and even my acc swap set still has 25% TA, 33% DA, and 74 stp. Life as a BLU is good.
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Pretty convenient for RDM too, since you can just distract targets that cause you any issues.
What should you offhand if no RMEA and not wanting to use Thib?
Colada is still an option.
Colada yeah.
Nibiru Kaja if you can't/won't play augment roulette I have Colada, nothing better has been added? What about Kaja sword vs Colada? I assume you can make both but have seen no real reports of anyone actually doing it.
You definitely can have Naegling/Kaja, whether or not it's better than Naegling/Colada... I'll let someone else answer that. I'm curious which would come out ahead as well.
I have Maxentius/Kaja Club so it's 100% possible. Even with average augments on Colada, I feel like it would be better than Kaja Sword just from looking at the base stats:
Kaja Quote: DMG:156 Delay:240 DEX+10 INT+10 MND+10 Accuracy+35 Attack+25 Magic Accuracy+35 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+13 Magic Damage +217 Sword skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +242 (base) Colada Quote: DMG:140 Delay:240 Accuracy+20 Magic Accuracy+15 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+14 Magic Damage+123 Sword skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +201 "Fast Cast"+4% Bolded are the pros on Kaja Sword vs Colada, which can be augmented. If you assume even bare minimum augments (see caps here on Colada - DMG+10~15,STR or DEX +8~10, Accuracy +15, Attack +15, DA+2~3/WSD+2~3/Crit Hit+2~3) Colada looks like a much more versatile offhand. Colada can also get higher accuracy, so it's the preferred option there. You can hit a +20 DMG augment on Colada if you're lucky, making the base damage higher than Kaja, though most dont care about offhand base damage. DEX stat is negligible, you can hit that one Colada augments. The only stats Kaja Sword comes ahead in is INT, MND, Attack, Magic Damage, and Magic Accuracy (you can hit higher MA stat than Kaja with Magic path), with the latter 2 mattering less for a sword-wielding BLU (Case to be made that macc is important for SL build). Colada also comes with the niche FC+4%, so it improves your BLU casting a little bit as well. I should state that the difference in Magic Accuracy skill between the two weapons is pretty big in Kaja's favor, so you have to weigh how valuable that stat is for you on whatever you're doing on BLU. In that light, it would depend which you consider "better". Someone with the math behind it can validate further, but Colada looks way better on paper as an Offhand than Kaja Sword, if you can stomach the random augmenting process. Especially for DPS. tanmogayi +1 has 11 more base damage than naegling and in terms of acc only 4 less acc/8 less sword skill, its only a real disappointment when it comes to landing debuffs (just 188 magic accuracy skill) but most BLU don't bother with debuffing anyway.
no one ever showing any love anymore for silver banana. |
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