Marksmanship VS. Archery

By flat increase I meant non-percentage. Sorry, bad wording.

I really don't understand the objection to Liquidz's post ..at all. He interjected an opinion he had of the forum on the topic of rangers in a Ranger forum. It wasn't entirely relevant to the current discussion but I don't think it detracted from it either. It's pretty common for multiple topics to be taking place in a single thread anyway. Is it that bothersome?

Conversations have a way of skipping around as such and to nail a single post for that just seems a little ridiculous.

His post was to call upon the integrity of our discussion by implying that we weren't being truthful or we're making our points up. He even admitted this in a later post.

I simply do not understand why he needed to post it at all. It didn't contribute to the discussion, and didn't provoke anything further. It was trolling, plain and simple (which he has clearly demonstrated in his follow up posts); and I believe that should be kept to the flame core.

If I am wrong, so be it. I just feel this is a positive thread with some positive discussion and I would hate to see the trolling mindset of some readers to defract from the good points being raised on both sides.

no no no it had nothing to do with the post I should have not said anything! ^.-

Especially nothing to do with someone stating that +15 Agi is giving her a 100-150 damage increase on Kirin compares to Ranged Attack+11!


I was not trolling, I was just saying that when you post in a topic like this on forums please try to explain your numbers or choices with stats and situation. A lot of people are making ridiculous claims about rangers, I see it more for RNG than most other jobs.

From any of the posts I've seen from Liquidz's he's never been the trolling type and is generally a pretty pleasant guy being why I thought it was a little much. I don't think in his posts there's any secret that he probably doesn't like you personally, but outside of that as an interested reader that had no intention of posting here with info or arguments, I thought he was totally okay.

Either way that has definitely been derailed now (present conversation) whereas it might not have been if you hadn't commented on it at all. Yano? That's all from me, though.

His other posts are irrelevant. I haven't seen them. I'm going by what he posted here, and he made his trolling intentions clear. Perhaps I didn't approach his post in the best manner, but his response didn't exactly do him any favours.

Sure, I might not have commented, but this is a discussion thread, so I'm trying to approach every post head on.

I'm also not the one posting numbers or figures. Seraphita is. I'm also asking for the circumstances behind these figures. So I don't know why all of that aggro was aimed at me.

I apologise if I came across as rude, not my intention at all. I am just passionate about Ranger and passionate about sharing my experiences with others.

PS. I may also be a little grouchier today because I have a horrible man-flu and it's killing my head, lol.

Archery. Fay bow with wsd4-5%, rng attk15+ beats any other ranged weapon is game save relic. If you get Str or delay along with those stats, its even better.

75rng for several years myself, but sadly it doesnt see the light of day that often, worst thing i did to my ranger was level rdm and cor... lol.

I bookmarked this post a little while ago, some statistical testing on ranger i think just before the distance patch? Nonetheless, it can help you get a good idea just how much each str is adding to your weaponskills versus ranged attack and agi.

"STR vs. RAtk vs. AGI for the end-game RNG: Some answers"

It's a good read if nothing else and I thought I'd contribute it since it seemed appropriate.

I am 75 rng and consider my gear sets to be optimal. I just cant for the life of me decide on Hume RSE feet vs. Scout's Socks and Fenrir's Earring vs. Triumph Earring. Talking TP as well as WS's. Currently I am 8/8 Archery, 0/8 Marksmanship. Vali's Bow and Culverin (no +1 as to none being made on my server ; ;) are my weapons of choice given the situation. Someone please chime in on these pieces, thank you.

1 R.Attack is 25% better than 1 STR.

Unless you can get more STR on a piece, it's always better tos tick with R.Attack.

Especially considering the options are 2/3 STR compared to 10 Attack.

That was a brilliant read, tyvm for posting it. Gonna have to do a couple similar tests of my own sometime now.

Link isnt working for me. Keeps giving me cannot display webpage ; ;

It's because s/he accidentally put some HTML code in there. Try this link instead.

ty Woo, now answer my question!

edit: or I could actually read that page...

Scout's Socks are better than the RSE, statistically. But we all know other things come into effect that might contradict that.

Read through the alla post and found everything I needed to know. One thing I had a question about was he is saying Hope Torque will outperform a sea gorget for Sidewinder. Is this accurate??

Sidewinder's fTP is so ridiculously *** high - 5.0 - that it's possible but probably situational. A Sea gorget is only a 2% improvement to Sidewinder damage. AGI+5 is 2 base damage * 5 fTP = 10 damage before multiplying against RpDIF (a function accounting for your RATK, the mob's defense, and level correlation). So it depends on your RpDIF and the damage you're dealing without either piece.

It depends essentially on everything else you're using. If the calculated damages, based on your stats and gear, is high enough, technically it will be.

Edit: Nightfyre beat me to it but he had some maths too!

Very good read^

Sorry for the borked link, ffxiah is inserting the <br> in there, it's not in my OP. =x

AS for the original topic, in my personal experience, crossbow is the most versatile weapon, acid bolts allow you to do more damage than bow without. Unfortunately, acid doesn't stick effectively to colibri or puks, so it'd not really useful in merit. In a linkshell setting, if you have other competent damage dealers, it doesn't hurt to help them out with an acid proc on those mobs that don't resist. Switch after one slugshot, or just stick with it for an easy time on your wallet, as bolts are usually inexpensive. Another interesting note is the fact that Othinus bow + Golden Musketeer's Bolt is higher total base damage than Vali's Bow and Patriarch Protector's Arrow. Though not as popular as other weapons, Othinus bow and Bolts is comparable to other weapons, in situations where the bolts aren't resisted. I use this as a relaxed cheap way to play my job on low end enemies that I'd otherwise be completely wasting my silver bullets or Kaburas on.

Bow is an effective mix of speed and power, and while I don't really prefer it, I cannot deny the ease of getting a very potent DoT with the Vali's bow. Contrary to gun, if you happen to miss an arrow, it doesn't hurt your DoT too drastically. Bow also gains more damage output from every individual STR on weaponskill. With the correct Store TP build, bow has the ability to outperform a gun ranger. Also, if you use Scorpion Arrows to TP you can save a little gil on ammo.

Gun is my personal favorite as well. Though, seems a little slow when /nin or /war, when you sub /sam you easily gain the Store TP necessary to have a 5-hit build. Where you lack in delay, you make up for in STP, and you can spam weaponskills fast and effectively. This is also a great zerg choice. Your weaponskill numbers, compared to the other two choices, will always be higher with gun using similar gear for each weapon. Though a little pricey, Silver Bullets are relatively low in price compared to other bullets.

I think that Cannon is a different weapon altogether from gun, obviously. I only just recently started using this as I just got a Heavy Shell and found a Culverin+1. I think the most important part of this weapon is the Multi-hit weapon. It's fun for numbers, but the only way to gain TP effectively is to use something like a Kraken Club, or perhaps Ridill or M.Kris. Otherwise this weapon is just too slow and expensive to be effective DoT.

Price for me is an issue, because my income isn't as well off as someone with a lvl100 craft, though, I do skim some of the price off by synthing my own bullets. I'm happy they're lowering enmity in the next update, maybe now I can get away with /war without suiciding myself several times. heheh.

In every situation.

Seriously, stop camping vbow and sell your ebow. The fay bow is only 30k and outperforms with above mentioned stats. Only use for culv/hellfire I could see now is for kclub users.

If you aren't getting enough WSDMG to compensate for the longer time to WS and enough RATK to maintain that lead, V/Ebow will win. In other words, you need a very good set of augments for it to pull ahead, in a strong combination of -delay, +WSDMG, and RATK.

When I leveled ranger, I used both.

Can easily get a 6 hit build with Gendawa that you cannot with others. Plus if you can also get delay aug along with wsd+rng attk to bring it to about a 470-480 delay. Moreover, if you have snapshot/rapidshot merited and any enhanced gear, you shouldn't worry too much about 20-30 delay. With WSD+5% and rngatkk+14, I outparser my ebow by 9-10%. My third aug is WSA but trying for a higher rng attk and str or delay for third aug.

6-hit EBow: 15 STP, WS in whatever you like. 14 and 7+ or 13 fulltimed works as well. Your Fay weapon should not be outparsing an equal EBow, you're gaining 5% WSDMG per hit plus any gains made if you're optimizing your WS set to take advantage of the WSACC but you're also WSing 8.6% slower, along with a greater delay between shots that lowers your TP DPS. There's also the lower additional stats on your Fay weapon. Your bow is inferior for everything except epeen shots.

Take less with gendawa and stp isnt very common in rng gear. Allowing more dmg per shot in tp gear.


5%
Even without the WSA, it would still beat ebow. Weapons skill on average outperforms ebow by 16% along with normal ranged attacks by 11%.
Not quite. Rapid shot would bring that down to about 4-5% over time, maybe lower but again, I would take delay augment over WSA, therein increasing the gap gendawa already has over ebow.

If you wanna camp Eshadow or buy a 5m bow, be my guest. Its more fun, imo, to do the aug fights. I'm not going to debate with you which is better anymore as I already know. You can take the advise or don't. I wouldn't have sold my ebow if I hadn't tested in for months.

Not counting augmented gear rng can get a good 41 store tp... granted alot of that stuff you probably wouldn't ever consider wearing on rng like cobra gear but still maybe 5 hit with auged bow?

Rajas, Rose Strap, Mekki Shakki, STP/Snapshot Mirke. Any 3 provides enough STP, though you either have to use Brutal during TP or WS in an additional STP item during WS if using Rose. Otherwise you can WS in non-STP gear. Those are all easy to obtain, don't need Skadi or Hachiman items. Damage per shot is not affected significantly enough to recover from 8.6% fewer shots. If it is, kindly do the math to prove it is so.


Already fixed that, was a mistake when I typed but it doesn't change the verdict.


This is such absolute *** *** that I'm not sure how to respond except to laugh and tell you to GTFO. Your Fay does less damage per TP shot and has a greater WS damage per hit at a lower frequency that makes it worse. EBow has the same base damage after fSTR2 and more RATK, so it does more damage per hit given the same gear and certainly isn't getting outparsed by 11% even with adjustments to your TP set. A well-build WS set should be losing 5% minus EBow stats in your WS set since you should be able to WS in the same gear.




Rapid Shot has the same % reduction of delay over time, the amount is increased but the % is the same. Average reduction % * the % activation rate.


ftfy