|
Turbo vs. Supercharged vs. N2O The showdown!!!
By Mikumaru 2009-12-11 11:24:46
Whats the best way to make powa ? Force it of course ! But which way to go ? With modern Spray systems capable to producing 800+ extra horsepower , it would seem like the way to go , but is very limited to drag racing with its finite storage capacity . However upon a closer look , it can be applied to just about anyform of racing or goin fast .The down side apart from supply limited by containers to hold (tanks) ? The need to build the engine specificly for the abuses of Nitrous . Intake temp goes from 180+ on a hot engine to what -125ish in about 0.8 seconds , shits gunna break . Increased Chamber pressure and chamber pressure fluctuation from the cold spike . A turbo is only restricted by the 1.) Turbo design 2.) engine displacement (for speed of spooling , not overall output) and 3.) overall system design (Intercooled vs not , Heat ingestion , variables) . in theory a turbo will make more Power as exhaust volume increases ergo the faster you can spin it(engine , turbo) , the more it makes . Its 'free' too , doesnt require as much noise control (a few OEM Turbo vehicles dont have a muffler , just a resonator )if its needed . While most agree on the 'free' power out put , there is a small amount of pumping loss but like an alternator/generator , it only needs to be 'fed' til it starts producing it's own power . Unless youre dealing with a sealed unit , the heat ,cooking and burning of engine oil can become an issue . and as stated about expodential power production , if a relief/blow-off valve gets stuck , there goes your head gaskets , intake gaskets , and possibly oil pan gasket , depending on the engine . Superchargers offer amazing off idle power , drivablity and compared to the other systems , ease of adjustment . Too much Boost ? bigger Compressor pulley . Need moar Boosts ? Make it smaller . The only real draw back with superchargers really is the pounding the bottom end takes. A turbo doesnt 'require' as much specific parts vs. a supercharger because the pressure build is gradual compared to the On-demand of a S/C . I'm not saying you should build for turbo , when dealing with this sort of thing you really should build for what youre putting in . But a S/C requires more expesive Forged pieces (um like the WHOLE bottom end ) compared to a turbo where you can probly get away with a Cast Crank and possibly even Rods .
Personally , i am Supercharger kinda guy . The sound , the on-demand low end torque , the visual stimulation cant be done with the hairdrier or the Squirty-Squirt (but a N2O System being purged is pretty cool) .
any thought or additions ?
Server: Hades
Game: FFXI
Posts: 227
By Hades.Dizzmal 2009-12-11 11:32:53
wat?
nice wall of text there.
But on a more serious note, you made some good points in there. I always go by this: There is no replacement for displacement! That being said I still like a Turbo over a SuperCharger for the main reason of that it is easier to get the power to the ground with the Turbo due to the fact that it has to build pressure than having it on demand like the S/C.
With a turbo you have to worry about getting the right one for your setup. To small wont give you enough power while too big will cause turbo lag killing your E.T. I normally like a twin turbo setup myself.
I don't like Nitrous setups unless it is small bursts of 2 to 3 stage @ 150hp shots. No matter how you look @ it Nitrous will damage an engine faster than anything else.
In the end, it always matters on how much money you plan to drop into your project.
By Mikumaru 2009-12-11 11:39:28
I'm sorry i'll break it up like a big poo next time lol
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4580
By Ramuh.Lilbusta 2009-12-11 11:51:14
Really this is a situation or open to one's own opinion. Similar to the Ford vs. Chevy stuff we see all the time.
I'm a turbo person because the only time it needs to spool up is when you first start it. When you're on the line waiting for the lights, you'll already be sitting at 1800-2000 RPMS. That's when the turbo is primed and ready to go.
S/C to me are a nothing more than eye candy when you have a nice V8 with a S/C sticking out of the hood.
N20 is sorta stupid to me. Just blowing cold oxygen into the cylinder just like a turbo or S/C forces more oxygen for combustion.
I'll never put N20 on my car. I enjoy improving my HP by building the motor rather then a temp boost.
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 294
By Siren.Murdock 2009-12-11 13:06:31
By Mikumaru 2009-12-11 13:39:36
Ramuh.Lilbusta said: Really this is a situation or open to one's own opinion. Similar to the Ford vs. Chevy stuff we see all the time. N20 is sorta stupid to me. Just blowing cold oxygen into the cylinder just like a turbo or S/C forces more oxygen for combustion. I'll never put N20 on my car. I enjoy improving my HP by building the motor rather then a temp boost. actually no N2O doesnt do that , a better description of it would be 'Chemical Supercharger' . Oh you wanna fight about it ? ok here's the facts : The air we breathe contains about 14-20% Oxygen (sea Lv vs Above/below + other factors like weather and pollution) which is what is used to cause combustion , where as Nitrous Oxide (2 Nitrogen , 1 Oxygen hence N2O ) has 33% Oxygen . The Power made isnt from the 250+ degree change , its from adding 33% more Oxygen than Air contains . the Temp change enhances this effect by condensing it even further(think intercooler). The Nitrogen is commonly thought of as a Buffer to help absorb Heat (tho i dont believe its been proven) . as far as the Chevy vs. Ford goes . of course it is!! also the same as BLM Vs. SCH , Red vs White Pizza , Dark vs Light Beer , Whiskey Vs. Burbon (arent they the same?) , Capitalism vs Communism (lol) , ect . just makin a conversation cuz i dont feel like talkin about FFXI right now , geeeeez . and for the record , Chevy vs Mopar Vs Ford . there's 3 ;) MOre PowAR .
By Mikumaru 2009-12-11 13:44:41
That is too funny . yo the Puerto Ricans are luvvin that ***in my Shop Right now . stoopid LOLFirechicken . Take that LS1!!!!
so does that make N20-1 S/C-0 Turbo-0 ? too funny .
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4580
By Ramuh.Lilbusta 2009-12-11 13:51:15
Lol I said cold because it's pretty much pushing more cubic inches of oxygen because it's condensed, which in returns gives more power during combustion. Same as why you get more power with a turbo or S/C > NA engines or even by changing the heads to increase the air intake for more oxygen.
I'm not arguing just stating my opinion on why I'm turbo>S/C and don't acknowledge N2O.
Leviathan.Solare
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 107
By Leviathan.Solare 2009-12-13 17:00:30
Everyone is intittled to their own opinion. But, just for the record. You can get twice as much HP and torque from a turbo, then you can from a supercharger.
Ragnarok.Jammie
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 43
By Ragnarok.Jammie 2009-12-13 17:22:03
I feel silly, for a minute, I really thought you guys were talking about some gear for a PUP Puppet. I'll leave now ^^;
Ragnarok.Ashman
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4248
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2009-12-13 18:46:51
my vtec just kicked in
Whats the best way to make powa ? Force it of course ! But which way to go ? With modern Spray systems capable to producing 800+ extra horsepower , it would seem like the way to go , but is very limited to drag racing with its finite storage capacity . However upon a closer look , it can be applied to just about anyform of racing or goin fast .The down side apart from supply limited by containers to hold (tanks) ? The need to build the engine specificly for the abuses of Nitrous . Intake temp goes from 180+ on a hot engine to what -125ish in about 0.8 seconds , shits gunna break . Increased Chamber pressure and chamber pressure fluctuation from the cold spike . A turbo is only restricted by the 1.) Turbo design 2.) engine displacement (for speed of spooling , not overall output) and 3.) overall system design (Intercooled vs not , Heat ingestion , variables) . in theory a turbo will make more Power as exhaust volume increases ergo the faster you can spin it(engine , turbo) , the more it makes . Its 'free' too , doesnt require as much noise control (a few OEM Turbo vehicles dont have a muffler , just a resonator )if its needed . While most agree on the 'free' power out put , there is a small amount of pumping loss but like an alternator/generator , it only needs to be 'fed' til it starts producing it's own power . Unless youre dealing with a sealed unit , the heat ,cooking and burning of engine oil can become an issue . and as stated about expodential power production , if a relief/blow-off valve gets stuck , there goes your head gaskets , intake gaskets , and possibly oil pan gasket , depending on the engine . Superchargers offer amazing off idle power , drivablity and compared to the other systems , ease of adjustment . Too much Boost ? bigger Compressor pulley . Need moar Boosts ? Make it smaller . The only real draw back with superchargers really is the pounding the bottom end takes. A turbo doesnt 'require' as much specific parts vs. a supercharger because the pressure build is gradual compared to the On-demand of a S/C . I'm not saying you should build for turbo , when dealing with this sort of thing you really should build for what youre putting in . But a S/C requires more expesive Forged pieces (um like the WHOLE bottom end ) compared to a turbo where you can probly get away with a Cast Crank and possibly even Rods .
Personally , i am Supercharger kinda guy . The sound , the on-demand low end torque , the visual stimulation cant be done with the hairdrier or the Squirty-Squirt (but a N2O System being purged is pretty cool) .
any thought or additions ?
|
|