Obama's Downgrade

First off S&P is garbage. They gave AAA ratings to the sub-prime backed securites that helped lead us to where we are today. They also admit to a 2 trillion dollar (yes two trillion!) error when calculating the US's debt sustainability which when called out on it they admitted to. Basically their decision to downgrade has to do with how they feel about the situation we're in and using the bi-oartisan smoke screen as a cover, though that certainly is a problem for many other reasons.

Something that is truly at the heart of all of this is how divided we are as a nation. This reflects in our politics and our politicians. Until we can find a way to sit down and compromise and find solutions instead of resorting to mindless finger pointing (the old blame game) and grow up, we're going to continue to face these problems. Another issue that hobbles us is the governments lack of foresight. They try to tackle the problem in front of them without thinking ahead. Take social security for one. The average age back then was much lower around 57 for men and 62 for women. So the idea was that you have this set up where people work for long periods of time, gov't collects the money and very few ever collect. They didn't think about what would happen when life expectancy skyrocketed and some people nowadays are living until their 90's. Check it http://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html. Now they are paying out and hefty sums at that because it doesn't even seem like they thought it possible.

When we stop in fighting and blaming each other and even show some vision then we can see a true path to our future.

exactly

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/06/the-credibility-and-integrity-of-sp%E2%80%99s-ratings-action/
If you want to read about some of the contreversy sorrounding the S&P decision.

Maybe. Although the "American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009" pretty much - according to the politicians- was supposed to do those kinds of things.

you talk about ppl having lived under a rock, but obviously missed the debts have literally exploded under Bush jr.?lol.

dont get me wrong, i think Obama is not decisive enough, but the thought of having a US President from the Tea Party makes me want to build a Space Ship asap..

+1

Both parties suck and every president since the 70's has pretty much done the same stupid crap. Liberal or conservative, their decisions have pretty much been interchangeable. All have increased government spending, all have increased the debt, all have taken us to war in foreign lands. The problem is the US has become a consumer society. We don't really produce anything anymore. So in order to maintain the illusion of economic strength, we have to spend money we don't have. We do this through war. With Reagan it was the cold war, since the first Bush, it has been the Iraq wars, and recently, we have transitioned to the Afghan war. The money spent on these conflicts is paid for completely through borrowing while the maintenance of the military is covered by taxes. In the last 15 years, we have averaged 100 billion a year in loans just for these wars. This keeps our economy seemingly strong because it generates hundreds of thousands of US jobs. However, as we are beginning to finally see, it is unsustainable.

There is a solution, but it sucks. Withdraw from all foreign conflicts, cut many social welfare programs, raise import tariffs drastically, and revamp the tax code significantly (I like the idea of a universal sales tax, all others should go, especially property tax). Overall, this would lower the average standard of living for all Americans for quite some time but would create a sustainable long term economy. What we are headed into now is a situation that will utterly destroy the US economy and will make the great depression seem downright rosy.

Those that adamantly follow a particular political party seem to have this fixation on needing a scapegoat for any particular misfortune, regardless of whether it has been a pre-existing condition or one that was inevitable from the beginning regardless of who was sitting in office.

It's pitiful when something goes wrong the first thing you can think of is "Yep, Obama must have *** up!".

I dunno, none of this *** would have happened if they'd just upped the ceiling without making a big stink about it. We weren't downgraded because we upped the debt ceiling. We were downgraded because the severe amount of political fighting and tomfoolery made our government look so incompetent that they seemed incapable of taking basic action and likely to potentially default. We're a less safe investment because our severely divided political system makes default a possibility.

The big fight was partially due to Obama and his cabinet being bad at politics, but first degree blame for the downgrade rests with the obstructionist mad hatters and (frankly) stupid Republican party line of late.

Yes. None of it means anything. Yes, if we just all agree that we need to spend more just to stay where we are, we will all be okay. They've raised the debt ceiling a hundred times before. It's ok, it doesn't mean anything bad and we should just trust them. Paying more interest on things bought years ago is your patriotic duty. Nothing bad is happening - that was all Bush. Hope. Change. Trust. Yes. Yes...

blaming this on obama is pretty hilarious. the s&p downgraded our rating because of a lack of increasing revenue. the deal was a failure because the republicans refused to vote for anything that raises taxes on the wealthy and corporations. the richest have not been paying their fair share since the bush tax cuts, and this is the result. of course, the exponential increases we've seen on defense spending since 2000 doesn't help either. analysts say that the war in iraq has cost the average family in the us over $25,000... thanks, bush!

Guess he's not hiding under a rock eh?

People really seem to be missing the point here. The fact is, all the bickering, and fighting, and even the downgrade, are accomplishing exactly what the people who initated intended. They are getting the general public to pay attention. The average citizen here in the states has been happy to ignore this issues for decades now but they are getting to the point where they cant be ignored any longer. The debt ceiling has been raised many times in recent history to get it to the point that it is at now, how many do you remember? You blame the people doing the blocking but they are trying to do you a favor. It has come down to either making things suck a little now to convince the population things need to change, or leaving things as they are and letting the system destroy itself. We are not far from that point now yet people still want to play ostrich and stick thier heads in the sand. The population needs to educate themselves on this issue so that we can correct it and stop playing this democrat vs republican vs tea party game. If anything, it should be the citizens vs the politicians. They will destroy our country simply by trying to stay in power, we need to put a stop to it.

I heard it was Obama's fault because he is black. His blackness put the country in debt and kills babies according the majority of Americans I've spoken to.

but by not raising taxes at all (or more accurately by not letting tax breaks expire either, which isn't technically "raising" taxes but putting them at the level they should be), this downgrade my impose a country wide "tax" on all of us in the form on raise interest rates etc.

i think it's time for you to move out of alabama.

Oops. I think it was in early 2010, when Obama said that extending the "Bush Tax Cuts" was critical to the economic recovery.

Hey, too - what happened to Obama ending our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan? Oh, that's right - he was joking. And, you realize you're saying that GW Bush tricked almost the entire planet? Who sounds crazy now. No. More likely, he was just wrong. Sucks bad, sure. But it's really easy to say that now. Hindsight is cool that way.

Are you really saying that that would be change the entire landscape of government deficit spending?

Did OP even read the S&P's explanation for the downgrade?

*awkward silence after daddy hits mommy at the dinner table*

idk, here's a link for those who haven't.

Don't live beyond your means and interest rates are completely irrelevant.


Is there any category/relevant evidence backing this 'claim' up?

Not everyone buys cars in full with cash. Also mortgages.

Nice!

Blaming any one individual for the current situation is naive, and selecting Obama to be the one person you choose to point the finger at is downright comical.


Obama has played a small role in the final act of a long tragedy that led the USA to this point. Make no mistake, the events were set in motion years ago, long before Obama's Presidential campaign began.

The "Tea Party" faction has ideas ... mostly emotionally-charged drivel that the majority of Americans do not support, and many Americans find comical. The S+P downgrades don't change any of that.
The "Tea Party" still offers ideas that are just as radical and just as illogical and just as ... dumb.

Congress is broken, and has been for a while, but it's much more obvious now and therefore more difficult to ignore. Until Congressmen are forced to focus on their jobs, rather than on campaigns, re-elections, grandstanding, and popularity/approval polls, Americans will continue to be governed by a Congress that serves themselves as a priority over serving their constituents and the American people.

If you want to get angry and want to direct your emotion towards something meaningful and potentially productive, then blast your Congressmen and Senators, demanding campaign finance reform and term limits for Congressmen and Senators. Ranting about a confabulatory "blame scenario" involving Obama just to soothe your conservative pinings is pointless and shameful, in my opinion.

"Politicians should be changed as frequently as babies' diapers ... and for the same reason."
-Robin Williams

The point Jaerik was probably getting at is that the debt itself was one of the more minor reasons for the downgrade. All you guys arguing about who got us into debt are wasting your energy, and the reasoning is nebulous at best. Years of Democrat social programs vs. years of Republican military spending and tax cuts, take your pick. We weren't downgraded because we were in debt, we were downgraded because it's stupid to invest in a country that came within 10 hours of a default. If we default, all the debt people have is worth only what we say it's worth and people potentially lose some/all of their investment.

Now why did we come within 10 hours of a default? It's hard to really blame the Democrats, who were willing to do what needed to be done and eventually was done. Even McCain was willing to pin blame for all the *** straight onto the Tea Party. They're a large voting block backed by people who understand economics about as well as most of you, and they made it very hard to just up the damned debt ceiling and drove us into an 11th hour weak compromise debt deal.

Yeah lol to this, guess every car you've ever purchase was in full with cash? and your parents and maybe yourself also purchased your houses in full with cash? Also you've never invested anything? (as your rate of return is based on these things)???????


@ Byrth, Totally Agree, I'm just personally sick & tired as a democrat being the only one at the table willing to make compromises, Yeah dem's don't want you to strip away every single social program to the bone or nothing but they are willing to do something. Unlike the other side.

Clinton started a big mess forcing bank to give sub prime mortgages.
Bush has the opportunity to stop it and didn't.

Meanwhile government has grown 100% over the past 10 years and Obama is as much to blame as the Bush administration as its grown 30% under him. Government needs to reduce by roughly 90% AND should only grow in proportion to our population.

Obama said he would end the war in Iraq, Remember his 100 days to end the war speech? No, google it.

Our credit rating got brought down because our government got called out. Our governments new debt bill literally is screwing every American right now. I am so glad that the President and Congress are realizing the situation. Warren Buffets statement saying the credit rating drop was wrong and that he would give the US a AAAA rating, Heck, might as well make it AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA then!!

Only way to get rid of these blood sucking politicians is by force, A-bomb on DC and the Pentagon would be a good start. Everyone knows it takes a lot of hard work and weapons to get rid of roaches, and make no mistake, they will (are) fighting the general population to stay in power.

They know what they are doing is destroying america and are fully prepared to kill you in the street to ensure the money stays at the top 'where it belongs'.

True, but if the Democrats weren't willing so compromise we would have defaulted and our name would have been dirt. At the moment, the Democrats and moderate Republicans are the main reason that we're rated higher than debt in a developing nation.