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Obama's Downgrade
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2027
By Odin.Daemun 2011-08-08 14:29:58
Bahamut.Ilvex said: Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: but by not raising taxes at all (or more accurately by not letting tax breaks expire either, which isn't technically "raising" taxes but putting them at the level they should be), this downgrade my impose a country wide "tax" on all of us in the form on raise interest rates etc. Don't live beyond your means and interest rates are completely irrelevant.
Carbuncle.Niusha said: analysts say that the war in iraq has cost the average family in the us over $25,000... thanks, bush! Is there any category/relevant evidence backing this 'claim' up?
Yeah lol to this, guess every car you've ever purchase was in full with cash? and your parents and maybe yourself also purchased your houses in full with cash? Also you've never invested anything? (as your rate of return is based on these things)???????
I currently owe no one anything. All of my future purchases will be with cash yes...
And I want the interest rate to climb, my ROI will increase..
By Drjones 2011-08-08 14:31:52
I just want to see more moderate politicians in general. All this extremism is just going to keep digging us deeper into the hole.
By Otomis 2011-08-08 14:33:28
Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: but by not raising taxes at all (or more accurately by not letting tax breaks expire either, which isn't technically "raising" taxes but putting them at the level they should be), this downgrade my impose a country wide "tax" on all of us in the form on raise interest rates etc. Don't live beyond your means and interest rates are completely irrelevant.
Carbuncle.Niusha said: analysts say that the war in iraq has cost the average family in the us over $25,000... thanks, bush! Is there any category/relevant evidence backing this 'claim' up?
Yeah lol to this, guess every car you've ever purchase was in full with cash? and your parents and maybe yourself also purchased your houses in full with cash? Also you've never invested anything? (as your rate of return is based on these things)???????
I currently owe no one anything. All of my future purchases will be with cash yes...
And I want the interest rate to climb, my ROI will increase..
I am like you mate, when the economy took a nose dive starting near 10 years ago we where in the process of paying off our debts, only thing we owe now is our mortgage (and should have that gone in next 5 years).
Lost money in the markets, although not as much as many investors, it was still a lot. We are sticking to the old rule now; If you do not have the cash to buy it, you don't need it! And, using simple saving accounts for retirement.
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By Odin.Gosuapple 2011-08-08 14:33:57
Odin.Liela said: All my ideas to fix the economy are bad. This is why I'm not an Econ major.
But, well, as it stands right now the older members of my family are scared. They think they won't be able to retire because their social service will be gone. One of them told me she's going to have to work until the day she dies because of this. One of them is a nurse who visits the homes of elderly people who can't get out. She takes care of them there. Some of the folks she visist on fixed incomes already have it so bad that they eat cat food because it's cheaper. They have to choose between having dinner or having their medicine because they can't afford both. They have 3 or 4 generations living in the same house because it's cheaper than buying or renting several residencies. There's got to be a better to fix the economy than screwing the old folks.
I think (keep in mind that all my ideas on this are unrealistic and probably bad) that all politicians should take a drastic pay cut. They get paid ridiculous amounts of money and benefits and most of them seem to be greedy liars. Why not give politicians minimum wage, or at least something closer to a middle-class wage? That way people would become politicians only if they genuinely wanted to help instead of if they wanted to make money. We'd have good people in those positions in that case, or at least better people. Then we take all the excess that would have gone to their paychecks and use it to start paying off US debts to other countries.
On top of that, we legalize both marijuana and prostitution. People are always going to do them anyways, why not use that to our advantage? Legalize them, then tax the hell out of them. Use those taxes to help pay off US debts.
It would take more than that to bail this country out, loads more. But it would at least be a start. It's never going to happen though. Politicians will never, ever risk denting their own pockets, and people, especially religious people, would be outraged over legalizing prostitution. It would also probably be difficult to tax anyways, difficult to keep track of. Any girl can do prostitution from her own home without any governing body having a clue.
:-(
Um... it's not as though politicians are choosing between pumping gas and being a senator. Senators and Congressmen would typically be making faaaar more working in the private sector than they would as politicians. Not that they do it because they're altruistic or anything, they just like having power over people. Still, they aren't doing it for the pay.
 Asura.Shylaa
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Posts: 200
By Asura.Shylaa 2011-08-08 14:39:01
Odin.Gosuapple said: Odin.Liela said: All my ideas to fix the economy are bad. This is why I'm not an Econ major.
But, well, as it stands right now the older members of my family are scared. They think they won't be able to retire because their social service will be gone. One of them told me she's going to have to work until the day she dies because of this. One of them is a nurse who visits the homes of elderly people who can't get out. She takes care of them there. Some of the folks she visist on fixed incomes already have it so bad that they eat cat food because it's cheaper. They have to choose between having dinner or having their medicine because they can't afford both. They have 3 or 4 generations living in the same house because it's cheaper than buying or renting several residencies. There's got to be a better to fix the economy than screwing the old folks.
I think (keep in mind that all my ideas on this are unrealistic and probably bad) that all politicians should take a drastic pay cut. They get paid ridiculous amounts of money and benefits and most of them seem to be greedy liars. Why not give politicians minimum wage, or at least something closer to a middle-class wage? That way people would become politicians only if they genuinely wanted to help instead of if they wanted to make money. We'd have good people in those positions in that case, or at least better people. Then we take all the excess that would have gone to their paychecks and use it to start paying off US debts to other countries.
On top of that, we legalize both marijuana and prostitution. People are always going to do them anyways, why not use that to our advantage? Legalize them, then tax the hell out of them. Use those taxes to help pay off US debts.
It would take more than that to bail this country out, loads more. But it would at least be a start. It's never going to happen though. Politicians will never, ever risk denting their own pockets, and people, especially religious people, would be outraged over legalizing prostitution. It would also probably be difficult to tax anyways, difficult to keep track of. Any girl can do prostitution from her own home without any governing body having a clue.
:-(
Um... it's not as though politicians are choosing between pumping gas and being a senator. Senators and Congressmen would typically be making faaaar more working in the private sector than they would as politicians. Not that they do it because they're altruistic or anything, they just like having power over people. Still, they aren't doing it for the pay.
And all those millions in anonymous untraceable funds are just a plus for doing business in corporate america.
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2011-08-08 14:44:00
Also speaking engagements and job offers afterwards. Don't forget them.
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By Odin.Daemun 2011-08-08 14:51:01
Otomis said: Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: but by not raising taxes at all (or more accurately by not letting tax breaks expire either, which isn't technically "raising" taxes but putting them at the level they should be), this downgrade my impose a country wide "tax" on all of us in the form on raise interest rates etc. Don't live beyond your means and interest rates are completely irrelevant.
Carbuncle.Niusha said: analysts say that the war in iraq has cost the average family in the us over $25,000... thanks, bush! Is there any category/relevant evidence backing this 'claim' up?
Yeah lol to this, guess every car you've ever purchase was in full with cash? and your parents and maybe yourself also purchased your houses in full with cash? Also you've never invested anything? (as your rate of return is based on these things)???????
I currently owe no one anything. All of my future purchases will be with cash yes...
And I want the interest rate to climb, my ROI will increase..
I am like you mate, when the economy took a nose dive starting near 10 years ago we where in the process of paying off our debts, only thing we owe now is our mortgage (and should have that gone in next 5 years).
Lost money in the markets, although not as much as many investors, it was still a lot. We are sticking to the old rule now; If you do not have the cash to buy it, you don't need it! And, using simple saving accounts for retirement.
I can't think of that term atm, but it's essentially paying yourself the payments on big items to save up until you can buy (good thing for items from cars, to furniture, to big screen tvs etc). Deductive savings or something like that. Take what the payment would be if you were going to pay for it with credit, pay yourself that amount each month into a separate account, take about 90% of what the item costs, and haggle them into taking that as a cash option. You save money this way, and aren't a slave to any company. This is also great that if you fall on some hard times, paying yourself that payment is optional, unlike if you owed Rooms-to-Go $3500.
Bahamut.Ilvex
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By Bahamut.Ilvex 2011-08-08 14:53:31
Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: but by not raising taxes at all (or more accurately by not letting tax breaks expire either, which isn't technically "raising" taxes but putting them at the level they should be), this downgrade my impose a country wide "tax" on all of us in the form on raise interest rates etc. Don't live beyond your means and interest rates are completely irrelevant.
Carbuncle.Niusha said: analysts say that the war in iraq has cost the average family in the us over $25,000... thanks, bush! Is there any category/relevant evidence backing this 'claim' up?
Yeah lol to this, guess every car you've ever purchase was in full with cash? and your parents and maybe yourself also purchased your houses in full with cash? Also you've never invested anything? (as your rate of return is based on these things)???????
I currently owe no one anything. All of my future purchases will be with cash yes...
And I want the interest rate to climb, my ROI will increase..
You plan on purchasing a house with cash?
Yes as your ROI increases, the price of all the goods that you buy, increased interest rates will increase the cost of goods, YOU will pay for it one way or another..
Ifrit.Arawn
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By Ifrit.Arawn 2011-08-08 14:54:13
I think everyone in Ragnarok.Nausi said: Well not skirting it now, Obama own this downgrade, he's spending the day hiding out behind closed doors
Has anyone seen the president yet?
Oh and in case you've been living under a rock for the weekend...
U.S. Looses it's AAA Credit rating from S&P.
Sad day for America, this is the only time that this has ever happened. Guess we should have listened to those tea partiers eh? They did after all actually offer an alternative and pass a bill out a bill that would have made deeper cuts.
Thoughts?
Thoughts? My thought is that congress and the senate have done nothing worth noting in years. Its like they want to fail in order to point the blame at everyone else. As far as this being Obama's fault? Sure, insofar as hes a member of the ruling structure we have that just isn't working right now. I think he has the right idea. Balance cuts with strategic tax increases while trying to jumpstart the economy and move it in the right direction.
The problem is that you have a thousand drivers in washington and 3 cars. By the time they figure out who's driving we're going to be buried in the mud.
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 Caitsith.Zahrah
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By Caitsith.Zahrah 2011-08-08 14:55:29
Odin.Gosuapple said: Um... it's not as though politicians are choosing between pumping gas and being a senator. Senators and Congressmen would typically be making faaaar more working in the private sector than they would as politicians. Not that they do it because they're altruistic or anything, they just like having power over people. Still, they aren't doing it for the pay.
Even so, it's not like they're doing us any favors once they get to Capitol Hill.
[+]
Asura.Shylaa
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By Asura.Shylaa 2011-08-08 15:02:16
Talking about buying things with cash is all and well, but when millions of ppl can't even find jobs, that's pretty insensitive to say. Obviously people would not have to finance anything if they didnt have to.
My gf's car recently went out of commission and we live out of town (like an hour+ walking). There is one other car in the household for 5 people. I am not currently working but have excellent credit. So we we're able to get a car for low downpayment and low interest. Not having a car is not an option.
I'm glad some people's lives are well enough to pay for everything with cash though.
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By Shiva.Viciousss 2011-08-08 15:02:32
Asura.Catastrophe said:
I sincerely hope you are joking.
whether he is or not i'm laughing.
Server: Odin
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By Odin.Daemun 2011-08-08 15:03:19
Bahamut.Ilvex said: Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: Odin.Daemun said: Bahamut.Ilvex said: but by not raising taxes at all (or more accurately by not letting tax breaks expire either, which isn't technically "raising" taxes but putting them at the level they should be), this downgrade my impose a country wide "tax" on all of us in the form on raise interest rates etc. Don't live beyond your means and interest rates are completely irrelevant.
Carbuncle.Niusha said: analysts say that the war in iraq has cost the average family in the us over $25,000... thanks, bush! Is there any category/relevant evidence backing this 'claim' up?
Yeah lol to this, guess every car you've ever purchase was in full with cash? and your parents and maybe yourself also purchased your houses in full with cash? Also you've never invested anything? (as your rate of return is based on these things)???????
I currently owe no one anything. All of my future purchases will be with cash yes...
And I want the interest rate to climb, my ROI will increase..
You plan on purchasing a house with cash?
Yes as your ROI increases, the price of all the goods that you buy, increased interest rates will increase the cost of goods, YOU will pay for it one way or another.. Once you've paid one off and have equity+savings...yeah, it's not really that hard to buy/build with cash. I'm not saying a normal person can never have any debt their entire life. I'm saying it's something to strive for as quickly as possible, then never go into debt again. We are currently paying our house down as quickly as possible. It will be the last house we ever have a mortgage on. (and it won't be the last house we own)
Bismarck.Magnuss
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By Bismarck.Magnuss 2011-08-08 15:04:28
Asura.Catastrophe said: Ragnarok.Nausi said: Well not skirting it now, Obama own this downgrade, he's spending the day hiding out behind closed doors
Has anyone seen the president yet?
Oh and in case you've been living under a rock for the weekend...
U.S. Looses it's AAA Credit rating from S&P.
Sad day for America, this is the only time that this has ever happened. Guess we should have listened to those tea partiers eh? They did after all actually offer an alternative and pass a bill out a bill that would have made deeper cuts.
Thoughts?
I sincerely hope you are joking.
 Super cereal.
Really though, we can play the blame game all we want, but what the hell exactly is it accomplishing, here? Dude's done all he could to fix an already decimated economy. All he can do now is pick up the pieces and pray there's something left over to start anew. All this "AH BLAME OBAMER FER ME BEIN' UNEMPLOYEDED!!" is just ridiculous and completely useless.
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By slipispsycho 2011-08-08 15:10:50
I don't get why people are always blaming Obama for this mess.. Country was already in a downward spiral and falling apart when he took over. It's not as if the country was all fine and dandy until he came into office and screwed everything up. If you want a President to lay blame on, I suggest you start looking at ones that came before Obama.
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By Shiva.Lorielain 2011-08-08 15:16:26
It has come to the point where we have to do something.
Our leaders are corrupt, caring more for their jobs, their party line, than their country.
It is not they, who are at the edge of life expectancy, who must worry about the future, after all. They'll have plenty of money, no matter what they do. They'll have power for as long as their 'service' lasts.
While the weight of the country is carried by the breaking backs of the middle class, leeches scam our welfare state of a country, politicians scheme behind our backs, shaking hands with corporation heads, discussing what their party should do to discredit the next politician from the other parties.
It has come to the point where we have to do something. Our politicians are Democrats, Liberals, Republicans, and Conservatives, or worse!
The time has come, and it will not be pretty.
Tell me, are YOU a democrat, a republican?
Or are you an AMERICAN?
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 Lakshmi.Jesi
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By Lakshmi.Jesi 2011-08-08 15:17:49
Psycho Slip said: I don't get why people are always blaming Obama for this mess.. Country was already in a downward spiral and falling apart when he took over. It's not as if the country was all fine and dandy until he came into office and screwed everything up. If you want a President to lay blame on, I suggest you start looking at ones that came before Obama.
He's been president for about three years now.
How long does he have to be president before the problems are his fault and not people who have come before him. Serious question.
Also what did he do to prevent this?
 Caitsith.Shiroi
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By Caitsith.Shiroi 2011-08-08 15:21:05
More serious question, What should he have done? I think it couldn't be avoided.
Inb4 solution is cuts.
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 Fairy.Spence
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By Fairy.Spence 2011-08-08 15:22:58
By Drjones 2011-08-08 15:23:07
Lakshmi.Jesi said: Psycho Slip said: I don't get why people are always blaming Obama for this mess.. Country was already in a downward spiral and falling apart when he took over. It's not as if the country was all fine and dandy until he came into office and screwed everything up. If you want a President to lay blame on, I suggest you start looking at ones that came before Obama.
He's been president for about three years now.
How long does he have to be president before the problems are his fault and not people who have come before him. Serious question.
Also what did he do to prevent this? Three term minimum before that applies.
Cerberus.Tikal
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By Cerberus.Tikal 2011-08-08 15:24:25
Lakshmi.Jesi said: He's been president for about three years now.
How long does he have to be president before the problems are his fault and not people who have come before him. Serious question.
Also what did he do to prevent this? Economical issues and repairs take about a decade to take effect.
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By slipispsycho 2011-08-08 15:24:32
Lakshmi.Jesi said: Psycho Slip said: I don't get why people are always blaming Obama for this mess.. Country was already in a downward spiral and falling apart when he took over. It's not as if the country was all fine and dandy until he came into office and screwed everything up. If you want a President to lay blame on, I suggest you start looking at ones that came before Obama.
He's been president for about three years now.
How long does he have to be president before the problems are his fault and not people who have come before him. Serious question.
Also what did he do to prevent this? You act as if any other President could just swing a magic wand and fix everything in a short time span.. This has been building up for many, many years.. You're not going to fix everything in 3 years.
Bush left this country off bad, Obama inherited HIS problems and now everyone blames Obama.
The truth is no one person is responsible, nor can one man BE responsible.. It's likely going to be a great number of years before we start to see real change/improvement. But if you feel the need to blame someone, at least blame the 'right' one.
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By Odin.Daemun 2011-08-08 15:26:01
Drjones said: Lakshmi.Jesi said: Psycho Slip said: I don't get why people are always blaming Obama for this mess.. Country was already in a downward spiral and falling apart when he took over. It's not as if the country was all fine and dandy until he came into office and screwed everything up. If you want a President to lay blame on, I suggest you start looking at ones that came before Obama.
He's been president for about three years now.
How long does he have to be president before the problems are his fault and not people who have come before him. Serious question.
Also what did he do to prevent this? before that applies. I see what you did there...
Lakshmi.Byrth
VIP
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2011-08-08 15:26:02
Lakshmi.Jesi said: He's been president for about three years now.
How long does he have to be president before the problems are his fault and not people who have come before him. Serious question.
Also what did he do to prevent this?
The problem of the debt downgrade is a direct result of Republican/Tea Party ***, and there's frankly no other way to see it. We knew the bipartisan supported stimulus bill would increase our debt, so playing around with whether or not we're allowed to have the amount of debt we already voted for is just politics.
The problem of debt itself is always inherited. Most of the stimulus programs that were instituted are drawing down as they were designed to, but we're left with the debt. Because Republicans have taken raising taxes off the table, we're left cutting things. Neither side particularly wants to fire people and cut more programs because it's unpopular. The longer our government goes on, the less efficient it gets. I don't think our form of government is necessarily sustainable.
The best thing he could have done to this whole thing is basically just pre-emptively force Republicans/Tea Party guys to sign a debt ceiling increase and tie it to something they really wanted passed within the last year. Oops, F for politics there Dems.
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Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2011-08-08 15:26:36
Bismarck.Magnuss said: Asura.Catastrophe said: Ragnarok.Nausi said: Well not skirting it now, Obama own this downgrade, he's spending the day hiding out behind closed doors
Has anyone seen the president yet?
Oh and in case you've been living under a rock for the weekend...
U.S. Looses it's AAA Credit rating from S&P.
Sad day for America, this is the only time that this has ever happened. Guess we should have listened to those tea partiers eh? They did after all actually offer an alternative and pass a bill out a bill that would have made deeper cuts.
Thoughts?
I sincerely hope you are joking.
Super cereal.
Really though, we can play the blame game all we want, but what the hell exactly is it accomplishing, here? Dude's done all he could to fix an already decimated economy. All he can do now is pick up the pieces and pray there's something left over to start anew. All this "AH BLAME OBAMER FER ME BEIN' UNEMPLOYEDED!!" is just ridiculous and completely useless.
Oh right. Because stupid caricatures of people you don't like/agree with are really advancing the discussion, right?
Let me ask you this: What has Congress/the President accomplished? I mean, actually accomplished towards the goal of saving the economy? Honestly. Help me out.
I am looking for something like this:
Around XXXX time, XXXX was done. It helped save the economy by XXXX. Detractors said, "XXXX," but it was judged an excusable drawback because overall XXXX was the result.
Or something. Just so long as it is not like this:
"YYYY jobs were created last week." Then, "In a revised report, only YYYY jobs were created, which is YYYY less than previously reported."
Carbuncle.Larodar
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By Carbuncle.Larodar 2011-08-08 15:28:16
I voted for Ron Paul last time. I wonder what would have happened this term if he had been president.
By Drjones 2011-08-08 15:28:22
Odin.Daemun said: Drjones said: Lakshmi.Jesi said: Psycho Slip said: I don't get why people are always blaming Obama for this mess.. Country was already in a downward spiral and falling apart when he took over. It's not as if the country was all fine and dandy until he came into office and screwed everything up. If you want a President to lay blame on, I suggest you start looking at ones that came before Obama.
He's been president for about three years now.
How long does he have to be president before the problems are his fault and not people who have come before him. Serious question.
Also what did he do to prevent this? before that applies. I see what you did there... FDR was pretty boss.
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Carbuncle.Asymptotic
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By Carbuncle.Asymptotic 2011-08-08 15:30:49
Why can't we raise taxes AND make cuts?
Well not skirting it now, Obama own this downgrade, he's spending the day hiding out behind closed doors
Has anyone seen the president yet?
Oh and in case you've been living under a rock for the weekend...
U.S. Looses it's AAA Credit rating from S&P.
Sad day for America, this is the only time that this has ever happened. Guess we should have listened to those tea partiers eh? They did after all actually offer an alternative and pass a bill out a bill that would have made deeper cuts.
Thoughts?
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