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Xbox Exec: No Internet? Get an Xbox 360
 Bismarck.Aselin
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Bismarck.Aselin 2013-06-16 23:59:54
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »And remember. Second hand games DOES hurt publishers. I know people who havent bought a retail game yetr. They have over 20 games. Not one of those has gone to the devs. All to the middle man selling the second hand goods. It damages the industry. I know ill get flamed for this, but as far as im concerned, there is little difference between second hand games and piracy, there simply isnt. Until I see hard evidence and data to back up this claim by game publishers like with piracy itself, I will go by my belief that this is another scapegoating practice by them to put blame on something else instead of themselves. It is just like blaming piracy for their failures and for the PC and console game industry failing as a whole.
It is a multitude of factors that is affecting the game industry as we speak. It's not just games, but hardware itself. Both game consoles and PCs have slowed growth for the past few years. A lot of it has to do with mobile platforms-- smartphones and tablets, which have shown significant growth within the past five years. Mobile gaming has also increased, moreso than console and PC gaming. When you can buy a game in an app store [of your choice] for much less than what you pay for console and PC games, it is the lower price that will win out.
Another issue are game developers themselves. This issue is three-prong:
Game ports from consoles (namely from the 360) to PC not taking advantage of newer PC gaming hardware.
Why spend hundreds of dollars on a gaming PC or parts for one when the graphics are little to no different than the console version?
Games with less replay value, broken upon launch, and incomplete games requiring DLCs is another issue.
Why pay $50 to $70 for a game that requires massive patches upon launch or some time after launch? (e.g.- Sim City 2013)
Why pay $5 to $10 per DLC to add just new areas, weapons or a new character when they should have been added to the game from the start instead of making the game feel incomplete?
Why pay so much for a game that will have no more than 10 to 20 hours of gameplay, or has no replay value at all?
Retailer-exclusive pre-order DLCs and multiple DLCs for a game already costing $50 to $70 new. It feels like nickel-and-diming consumers for an incomplete game. And, store-exclusive pre-order items. Do I have to buy three or more copies of the same game to get all the pre-order bonuses? No, I should never have to do that. Give me a complete game at launch or you don't get my money.
That's the problem with games today. They're nothing like the PC and console games made before the year 2000 and earlier. I know before that if I were to get a game for $50 from EB Games or Toys 'R Us, I know I'm getting my money's worth. Today? No, not many games fall under that category.
There are only a handful of games worth playing that I can count on one hand, that have gotten really good reviews, a good story, great playability and fun factor. Then, there are the other games that I can count on two hands that have nothing more than repeated gameplay OR limited replay value such as the later Call of Duty series, Battlefield, Halo. Then, there are the games that require multiple DLCs and patches to make it feel complete or fix them entirely. Sim City 2013 is notorious for this, Mass Effect 3, and several others.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is this: Make the games worth buying and people will buy it. Stop blaming or scapegoating other things such as piracy or used game sales for your own failures.
That's it. Make games I want to play and give it value for me to keep it longer.
Used games have allowed me to enjoy games I've never played before or have missed an opportunity to buy them, and have also allowed me to try games I was hesitant to buy until some time after they were released. I own several used game systems ranging from the PC Engine, Core Grafx, to NeoGeo, and to Game Gear and Dreamcast systems. Half of my console games and a forth of my PC games (pre-DRM to death games) are previously used games or hand-me-downs. If companies such as Microsoft kill off the used game market, they kill off something I've been doing since high school, and they kill off any opportunity for others to experience these games.
Also, why keep a game when you've already beaten it or it has no replay value at all? A lot of used games are the result of just that-- lack of replay value; lack of fun factor; or the game was completed too fast and provide no more value after it was completed. That's why people resell their games, and could be other reasons like lost or damaged discs (or cartridges).
There is a still a purpose for used games, and we can't just let it go away like cassette and VHS tapes.
I'd rather own a physical copy than a digital copy. At the very least I know the game will still be playable long after the game was originally released. And, I'd rather that the game require no online activation for its product keys because the servers could die out. The same with multiplayer-- LAN over internet. I'm already having that trouble with "Sword of the Stars 1"-- the multiplayer servers are deactivated and my friends and I can no longer play the game together. I'm worried that my copy of Anno 1404 will fall under the same boat when Ubisoft stops accepting activations for that game.
Issues from DRM, online activations, internet-based multiplayer and shutting off the multiplayer servers are killing gaming already. If it wasn't developer incompetence and lack of creativity to make a complete game, then it's other factors such as DRM that's contributing to it in a large way.
Gaming today has become nothing more than squeezing every nickel and dime out of a consumer, while charging so much for an incomplete, broken, or half-assed ported game.
That's gaming today.
[+]
Asura.Rekin
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 265
By Asura.Rekin 2013-06-17 00:36:48
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »And remember. Second hand games DOES hurt publishers. I know people who havent bought a retail game yetr. They have over 20 games. Not one of those has gone to the devs. All to the middle man selling the second hand goods. It damages the industry. I know ill get flamed for this, but as far as im concerned, there is little difference between second hand games and piracy, there simply isnt. Make games I want to play and give it value for me to keep it longer. I remember an argument coming from one of my friends that part of the reason why nintendo isn't concerned about the used game market is because they try to make games you wouldn't want to trade in to begin with, disclaimer: my friend is also a fan of most nintendo titles. As you said in your lengthy post Aselin, the reason publishers and devs are blaming piracy is mostly scapegoating. The only real company to probably suffer greatly from piracy was SNK but even then I'm not sure of the details.
AAA games nowadays spend far too many resources for minor gains as publishers pressure devs to follow some line of requests that the publisher will believe to increase appeal to the game. Because of these requests a lot of what could have been amazing games turn into generic games that leave one wanting. The industry also suffers from the inflation as others have mentioned caused by publishers to wit believe that their generic bs can be passed off as amazing works through gimmickry or shinies, i.e. every sports game ever.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-17 01:16:57
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »And remember. Second hand games DOES hurt publishers. I know people who havent bought a retail game yetr. They have over 20 games. Not one of those has gone to the devs. All to the middle man selling the second hand goods. It damages the industry. I know ill get flamed for this, but as far as im concerned, there is little difference between second hand games and piracy, there simply isnt. Until I see hard evidence and data to back up this claim by game publishers like with piracy itself, I will go by my belief that this is another scapegoating practice by them to put blame on something else instead of themselves. It is just like blaming piracy for their failures and for the PC and console game industry failing as a whole.
It is a multitude of factors that is affecting the game industry as we speak. It's not just games, but hardware itself. Both game consoles and PCs have slowed growth for the past few years. A lot of it has to do with mobile platforms-- smartphones and tablets, which have shown significant growth within the past five years. Mobile gaming has also increased, moreso than console and PC gaming. When you can buy a game in an app store [of your choice] for much less than what you pay for console and PC games, it is the lower price that will win out.
Another issue are game developers themselves. This issue is three-prong:
Game ports from consoles (namely from the 360) to PC not taking advantage of newer PC gaming hardware.
Why spend hundreds of dollars on a gaming PC or parts for one when the graphics are little to no different than the console version?
Games with less replay value, broken upon launch, and incomplete games requiring DLCs is another issue.
Why pay $50 to $70 for a game that requires massive patches upon launch or some time after launch? (e.g.- Sim City 2013)
Why pay $5 to $10 per DLC to add just new areas, weapons or a new character when they should have been added to the game from the start instead of making the game feel incomplete?
Why pay so much for a game that will have no more than 10 to 20 hours of gameplay, or has no replay value at all?
Retailer-exclusive pre-order DLCs and multiple DLCs for a game already costing $50 to $70 new. It feels like nickel-and-diming consumers for an incomplete game. And, store-exclusive pre-order items. Do I have to buy three or more copies of the same game to get all the pre-order bonuses? No, I should never have to do that. Give me a complete game at launch or you don't get my money.
That's the problem with games today. They're nothing like the PC and console games made before the year 2000 and earlier. I know before that if I were to get a game for $50 from EB Games or Toys 'R Us, I know I'm getting my money's worth. Today? No, not many games fall under that category.
There are only a handful of games worth playing that I can count on one hand, that have gotten really good reviews, a good story, great playability and fun factor. Then, there are the other games that I can count on two hands that have nothing more than repeated gameplay OR limited replay value such as the later Call of Duty series, Battlefield, Halo. Then, there are the games that require multiple DLCs and patches to make it feel complete or fix them entirely. Sim City 2013 is notorious for this, Mass Effect 3, and several others.
The basic point I'm trying to make here is this: Make the games worth buying and people will buy it. Stop blaming or scapegoating other things such as piracy or used game sales for your own failures.
That's it. Make games I want to play and give it value for me to keep it longer.
Used games have allowed me to enjoy games I've never played before or have missed an opportunity to buy them, and have also allowed me to try games I was hesitant to buy until some time after they were released. I own several used game systems ranging from the PC Engine, Core Grafx, to NeoGeo, and to Game Gear and Dreamcast systems. Half of my console games and a forth of my PC games (pre-DRM to death games) are previously used games or hand-me-downs. If companies such as Microsoft kill off the used game market, they kill off something I've been doing since high school, and they kill off any opportunity for others to experience these games.
Also, why keep a game when you've already beaten it or it has no replay value at all? A lot of used games are the result of just that-- lack of replay value; lack of fun factor; or the game was completed too fast and provide no more value after it was completed. That's why people resell their games, and could be other reasons like lost or damaged discs (or cartridges).
There is a still a purpose for used games, and we can't just let it go away like cassette and VHS tapes.
I'd rather own a physical copy than a digital copy. At the very least I know the game will still be playable long after the game was originally released. And, I'd rather that the game require no online activation for its product keys because the servers could die out. The same with multiplayer-- LAN over internet. I'm already having that trouble with "Sword of the Stars 1"-- the multiplayer servers are deactivated and my friends and I can no longer play the game together. I'm worried that my copy of Anno 1404 will fall under the same boat when Ubisoft stops accepting activations for that game.
Issues from DRM, online activations, internet-based multiplayer and shutting off the multiplayer servers are killing gaming already. If it wasn't developer incompetence and lack of creativity to make a complete game, then it's other factors such as DRM that's contributing to it in a large way.
Gaming today has become nothing more than squeezing every nickel and dime out of a consumer, while charging so much for an incomplete, broken, or half-assed ported game.
That's gaming today.
I'm not convinced that Tablet/Mobile gaming has an impact on console gaming. They still offer entirely different experiences that, as far as the games are concerned, do not overlap.
You still can't really get a Bioshock, Skyrim, Dark Souls, Sins of a Solar Empire, Witcher or even CoD experience on a mobile device. Nvidia's potentially breaking ground here with their streaming, but like everything else cloud, I think we're a while away from that being available to anyone but the 1%.
Everything seems to be an attempt to draw attention away from the broken business model of AAA gaming, but AAA gaming is the benchmark publishers use to measure their success because companies like EA and Activision have an investment group that doesn't necessarily hold respect for the medium. It's hard to sell a "Niche" game when everyone is chasing the Call of Duty (And now) Skyrim Dollar.
Hell, you're seeing the next trend-chasing with all the "Open World" Gaming shown at E3. Some games just aren't going to work as open world, and studios are going to close because someone made the call to push it.
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4305
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-06-17 01:42:38
Hell, you're seeing the next trend-chasing with all the "Open World" Gaming shown at E3. Some games just aren't going to work as open world, and studios are going to close because someone made the call to push it. Reason why Wada is gone.
It's worse when a whole studio dies due to it, though. Working in the video game industry is suffering if you're not working for a proper Korean/Chinese/American company.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2013-06-17 01:49:58
I agree. It's dangerous. Personally had there been any chance of me buying a game on the notion that I may like it has vanished on the xbone. I will stick to games I trust, franchises I enjoy and games I would like. This means that games coming from smaller publishers that can't keep up with the bigger companies will likely move forever to ps4 or Wii U or die. When this starts happening M$ will rethink its strategy.
I stand by my statement which I knew would be picked up. Look at he manual in games. What does it say? Not for publick display, for the purchasers viewable and entertainment only. The only thing is these DRM rules have existed for years, same for music and movies. They just was never enforced, so people never paid any attention. Now that they are being enforced people pay attention.
I use to work in the games industry. For one of the AAA companies, which I will not disclose. I could see first hand that second hand games added nothing to the success of the game. For the comment if I buy it I can borrow it to who ever I want, no, you bought a licence. That's it. That licence entitles you to play it, not 30 of your friends. You can honestly sit there and tell me that giving your copy of the game to 30 of your friends to play is any different from them downloading it? I mean that initial had to be bought right? So going by that logic piracy is perfectly fine right?
House resale and cars LOL seriously? Really? Make no mistake, if they could regulate DRM into those hey would, however unlike games, music dvd's you buy the right to th at property or car unless its a lease hold. In the case of a leasehold, you buy the property for the set period remaining on the lease and then by legal obligation regardless of how much invested, that property is given back to the freehold owner.
Bottom line it's happening. Publishes are happy, consumers are pissed. Consumers are always pissed even when the games are cheap. If they can pirate they will. You don't like the model and can't accept the model set up by Microsoft you have the one right that no one can take away from you. Don't buy it. Ignore it. Then your happy and are no longer upset.
Simple as that....
Shiva.Arana
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1527
By Shiva.Arana 2013-06-17 01:55:45
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »I use to work in the games industry. For one of the AAA companies, which I will not disclose. Emptying trash cans or wiping windows?
[+]
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-17 01:58:28
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »I stand by my statement which I knew would be picked up. Look at he manual in games. What does it say? Not for publick display, for the purchasers viewable and entertainment only. The only thing is these DRM rules have existed for years, same for music and movies. They just was never enforced, so people never paid any attention. Now that they are being enforced people pay attention.
.
You know what got me to buy Fable 1, II and III?
A friend who let me borrow Fable 1.
You know what got me to Buy Halo and an Xbox to play it on? A friend breaking the "License" by showing it off and sharing the experience.
I Gave my friend a copy of Sins of a Solar Empire (Which has no DRM at all) and you know what he did? Bought Trinity then bought Rebellion.
A Let's Play video got me to buy FTL and The Swapper.
Blame your failure on something else, because if you really want to enforce the licensing agreements, gratz on killing free marketing.
Now Venture Bros. is on!
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-06-17 02:18:55
I probably wouldn't have bought my Genesis, PS1/2/3, Xbox360, Gameboy Color/Advance/DS, PSP, or VITA if I hadn't had used games my parents could afford for my sister's NES. Hell we only had the NES itself because it was itself used.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2013-06-17 02:25:22
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »I use to work in the games industry. For one of the AAA companies, which I will not disclose. Emptying trash cans or wiping windows?
You know, it's comments like these that invite flame wars. I was merely expressing my opinion and you have to go insult. I can't disclose cause I'm still bound by NDA. But think what you want, I won't be drawn into your flame war of insults.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2013-06-17 02:33:21
I probably wouldn't have bought my Genesis, PS1/2/3, Xbox360, Gameboy Color/Advance/DS, PSP, or VITA if I hadn't had used games my parents could afford for my sister's NES. Hell we only had the NES itself because it was itself used.
I get that, I really do. Years ago I was exactly the same. Got my Mega Drive and my dad use to drive me to a second hand shop to buy games once every month where we could trade in the game we got for another.
Sadly developers couldn't care for people like that. It's depressing and yes it sux but such is life. I'm not being condescending or looking down on you. As someone who has experienced that I totally get what your saying. However it doesn't change the fact that digital only is the way forward. See everything Microsoft has suggested matters not to me barring one. No offline mode. The 24 hour check I don't like or agree with. Everything else bothers me not now. I don't buy second hand games no more. Haven't in years. But hey that's me. As for the comment about friend lending you the game, when your friend is at yours, they can log in with their gamer tag and you have their whole catalogue to try, or they can digitally lend that title to you (albeit once) and you can try it out.
Bismarck.Aselin
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 397
By Bismarck.Aselin 2013-06-17 02:40:06
I've said this before on another forum and I'm going to repeat again here: First Sale Doctrine
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01854.htm
Quote: The first sale doctrine, codified at 17 U.S.C. § 109, provides that an individual who knowingly purchases a copy of a copyrighted work from the copyright holder receives the right to sell, display or otherwise dispose of that particular copy, notwithstanding the interests of the copyright owner. The right to distribute ends, however, once the owner has sold that particular copy.
Basically, once the game leaves the copyright owner's hands and into the ownership of another, I am free to do whatever I want with that product. The copyright owner has no say in how I can and cannot sell the product to another person or entity (e.g.- store such as Gamestop, website such as eBay or Craigslist). The company only has ownership on the copyright and trademark of the item in question, not the physical product.
You sold me a physical item such as a disc-based game, not a license on a piece of paper. I own that game from the moment I step out of the store and paid for it.
What Microsoft and other game publishers are doing, and to another extent Steam, is doing away with physical copies and pushing digital copies where we own no physical copy but only a license to download and install the games on our own PC or console. One of the ideas of any free market society is the concept of ownership. Doing away with any ownership of any product, you are doing away any concept of a free market society, and putting ownership of the product in the copyright ownership's hands.
It should not be that way, not now and not ever.
If you are so adamant to believe that used game sales and piracy are ruining games themselves, you should start taking a good hard look at the kind of games on the market today. Majority of the PC games are console ports with little to no difference in their console counterparts. Many of the games are priced $59.99 and $69.99; have multiple $5 to $10 DLCs; require several patches to fix issues that should have been fixed on Day 1; are riddled with obtrusive DRM and online activations and online check-ins; have low replay value; have repeated and overly used gameplay; rehashing previous used gameplay and game ideas with nothing new or innovative in the game.
I don't see Ford, Chevy, or Penguin Books doing this to anything I buy. They don't ask me to enter an activation code before I can drive a car or read a book. They don't ask a retailer or dealership to give them a percentage of the money gained from a used car or used book sale. They don't limit me to reselling my used car or book to just one other person that's in my address book, and no one further than that.
Why should Microsoft and game publishers change that?
If they are losing money due to used game sales, then why is it that a company such as EA reported a 2013 fiscal earnings report of $3.8 billion dollars in net revenue and $1.44 billion dollars in digital revenue. Microsoft with $18.8 billion dollars in revenue reported for their fiscal year. If piracy of their Office and Windows products or EA games, or used game sales of the Xbox 360 was affecting them in any way, how the *** are they still reporting billions of dollars in net revenue? Heck, Activision Blizzard for the 1Q fiscal earnings was $1.3 billion dollars.
If used game sales and piracy was affecting them in any way, I DO NOT SEE IT.
Either they're lying through their teeth or they're just finding a scapegoat to blame poor sales of their new games. Well, first off, try blaming your poor products before you blame anything else.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-17 02:44:07
I've said this before on another forum and I'm going to repeat again here: First Sale Doctrine
http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01854.htm
Quote: The first sale doctrine, codified at 17 U.S.C. § 109, provides that an individual who knowingly purchases a copy of a copyrighted work from the copyright holder receives the right to sell, display or otherwise dispose of that particular copy, notwithstanding the interests of the copyright owner. The right to distribute ends, however, once the owner has sold that particular copy.
Basically, once the game leaves the copyright owner's hands and into the ownership of another, I am free to do whatever I want with that product. The copyright owner has no say in how I can and cannot sell the product to another person or entity (e.g.- store such as Gamestop, website such as eBay or Craigslist). The company only has ownership on the copyright and trademark of the item in question, not the physical product.
You sold me a physical item such as a disc-based game, not a license on a piece of paper. I own that game from the moment I step out of the store and paid for it.
What Microsoft and other game publishers are doing, and to another extent Steam, is doing away with physical copies and pushing digital copies where we own no physical copy but only a license to download and install the games on our own PC or console. One of the ideas of any free market society is the concept of ownership. Doing away with any ownership of any product, you are doing away any concept of a free market society, and putting ownership of the product in the copyright ownership's hands.
It should not be that way, not now and not ever.
If you are so adamant to believe that used game sales and piracy are ruining games themselves, you should start taking a good hard look at the kind of games on the market today. Majority of the PC games are console ports with little to no difference in their console counterparts. Many of the games are priced $59.99 and $69.99; have multiple $5 to $10 DLCs; require several patches to fix issues that should have been fixed on Day 1; are riddled with obtrusive DRM and online activations and online check-ins; have low replay value; have repeated and overly used gameplay; rehashing previous used gameplay and game ideas with nothing new or innovative in the game.
I don't see Ford, Chevy, or Penguin Books doing this to anything I buy. They don't ask me to enter an activation code before I can drive a car or read a book. They don't ask a retailer or dealership to give them a percentage of the money gained from a used car or used book sale. They don't limit me to reselling my used car or book to just one other person that's in my address book, and no one further than that.
Why should Microsoft and game publishers change that?
If they are losing money due to used game sales, then why is it that a company such as EA reported a 2013 fiscal earnings report of $3.8 billion dollars in net revenue and $1.44 billion dollars in digital revenue. Microsoft with $18.8 billion dollars in revenue reported for their fiscal year. If piracy of their Office and Windows products or EA games, or used game sales of the Xbox 360 was affecting them in any way, how the *** are they still reporting billions of dollars in net revenue? Heck, Activision Blizzard for the 1Q fiscal earnings was $1.3 billion dollars.
If used game sales and piracy was affecting them in any way, I DO NOT SEE IT.
Either they're lying through their teeth or they're just finding a scapegoat to blame poor sales of their new games. Well, first off, try blaming your poor products before you blame anything else.
I don't upvote a lot, but any time someone has properly sourced stuff is usually when I do. I know I can't be bothered to seek that ***out for these informal forums.
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2013-06-17 04:07:13
you never owned a product. All it was, was the fact that nothing was ever enforced. It was always a license that you buy. always has been and always will be. Going back to your example of cars. You dont buy a license when you buy a car, you buy the complete ownership of that property. The same is not said for media. Unless clearly stated you are buying a license. have been for aeons now.
In regards to companies making a profit, they probably are, i have no doubt but regardless of how you look at it, they still lose out.
Maybe my mindset is this way cause what MS impose matters not to me. The 24 hour check in is the only thing that bothers me.
Regardless i hope they do away with the 24 hour check. other than that, i can live with everything else. I been playing Steam games for ages now, and its no different to what they are doing. Either way, i guess no one in this thread will be getting a XBONE except for me it seems lol. Of course ill also be getting a PS4 :P
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-17 04:41:03
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »In regards to companies making a profit, they probably are, i have no doubt but regardless of how you look at it, they still lose out.
Maybe my mindset is this way cause what MS impose matters not to me. The 24 hour check in is the only thing that bothers me.
You have no proof of that.
It's equally valid for me to say game trade-ins are actually beficial to the publisher/developer, because if someone picks up a used copy of say, The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings, and absolutely love it, they're much more likely to buy The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt on launch day, instead of just avoiding the series altogether.
Basically, a pirated/used copy stolen/sold is not necessarily a sale lost to the publisher/developer. Some people would never have gotten the product to begin with. Combine that with the aforementioned "Free Marketing/Advertising" and I can verily say that the vilification of used game sales is just scapegoating.
One more point about the consumer benefit (And obviously Developer/publisher detriment) of used games. It holds developers/publishers to task when they push out a mess like Star Trek or Medal Of Honor: Warfighter.
This doesn't even address the broken pricing model of charging $60 for 6 hours of content, or the rigidity of the pricing scale. If a Game isn't a platinum hit, it's usually still $59.99 on the consoles.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-06-17 05:26:47
Was just checking PSN to see if I could get a game I have PS3 on my VITA (sadly no T~T). While checking what all was available, I managed to come across several-year old games still listed with launch-day prices of $30-40. Games you can find physical copies of for $5 brand new... I know it's likely the makers and not Sony dictating that price, but good freaking lord that's retarded...
I'll agree digital-only will eventually be the standard, but we are several years and business-model changes away from it being accepted over being able to hold a disk.
Shiva.Arana
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1527
By Shiva.Arana 2013-06-17 06:07:56
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »I use to work in the games industry. For one of the AAA companies, which I will not disclose. Emptying trash cans or wiping windows?
You know, it's comments like these that invite flame wars. I was merely expressing my opinion and you have to go insult. I can't disclose cause I'm still bound by NDA. But think what you want, I won't be drawn into your flame war of insults.
Suddenly saying someone is a hard working janitor is an insult? lol
Anyway the thing I'm getting at is you're making claims and basing them off of something that you can't/won't prove. I could easily say I'm Morgan Freeman in real life but you wouldn't believe me.
Though to be frank an NDA stopping you from giving your previous work history seems a little more than far fetched. I could understand giving details of projects etc but not even being able to name the company?
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 314
By Bismarck.Chaosprime 2013-06-17 06:32:08
Suddenly saying someone is a hard working janitor is an insult? lol
To me, yes it is. As for information, i could post my contract but i owe no one here anything. Its a social forum so take it as it is lol. You want to believe me, that's fine, if you don't that's up to you. I see zero point in lying to anyone. Was only offering another angle to this but it seems all people want to do is be butthurt that they aint getting want they want. You know what, continue lol. I'm done with this thread.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1009
By Sylph.Mirvana 2013-06-17 07:05:42
Oh god we're getting our own "Birther-Scandal"!!! {Run Away!!}{Changing Areas}!!!!
 Ragnarok.Zohnax
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-06-17 07:21:08
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »Suddenly saying someone is a hard working janitor is an insult? lol
To me, yes it is. As for information, i could post my contract but i owe no one here anything. Its a social forum so take it as it is lol. You want to believe me, that's fine, if you don't that's up to you. I see zero point in lying to anyone. Was only offering another angle to this but it seems all people want to do is be butthurt that they aint getting want they want. You know what, continue lol. I'm done with this thread. You'll be back. :3
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 Bismarck.Bloodbeat
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 420
By Bismarck.Bloodbeat 2013-06-17 07:38:12
The developers are simply going to have to find a satisfactory spot where they can make profit, maintain quality and lower retail cost.
Games, much like CDs/DVDs/Blu Ray, are the most vulnerable to resale because their use has a very low impact on qualitative loss.
You have to really neglect your discs in order to render them useless.
They're not likely to arbitrarily break.
So, in a nutshell, the value of games is retail cost - resale cost.
Developer's options are:
Lower retail cost.
Increase replay value.
Restrict resale.
The first two would exclude the third, and should be compulsory.
The third is pretty redundant unless your console competitors join your ranks.
Siren.Flavin
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-17 07:57:21
What proof do you have that they artificially inflated the business? Resident Evil 6. How is that proof? Capcom poured tons of money into it, bloated it's development costs with the false expectation that more investment is required to yield a return, not only did they wind up with a shitty game, but a game that even at it's best, couldn't be a financial success. Most AAA publishers are looking at CoD numbers as their target for sales, and investing accordingly. They publish these lies to drum up hype, announce announcements to generate unsubstantiated buzz (See: Square-Enix) and when their artificially inflated expectations aren't met, they go searching for a scapegoat. That Scapegoat is usually used games, now that concerns regarding piracy have been thoroughly explored and found totally lacking. Then you have Studios backed by publishers who do it right. CDprojekt Red with their Witcher Series. FromSoftware(NamcoBandai) with Dark Souls. Arkane Studios with Dishonored(Bethesda Softworks) who post the same sales numbers, and often less than RE6 or Tomb Raider, but become surprisingly large financial successes, because their publishers have a better grasp of development and marketing strategies that don't inflate the business. That's not proof at all.
Siren.Flavin
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-17 08:04:39
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: » In regards to companies making a profit, they probably are, i have no doubt but regardless of how you look at it, they still lose out. Maybe my mindset is this way cause what MS impose matters not to me. The 24 hour check in is the only thing that bothers me. You have no proof of that. It's equally valid for me to say game trade-ins are actually beficial to the publisher/developer, because if someone picks up a used copy of say, The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings, and absolutely love it, they're much more likely to buy The Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt on launch day, instead of just avoiding the series altogether. Says who? If they waited for it to go used and cheap why not just wait for it to go used and cheap again? All I hear from you is a lot of conjecture that seems to be based on your own opionions...
Fenrir.Camiie
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 817
By Fenrir.Camiie 2013-06-17 08:14:03
LOL There is like 5 topics and 100 pages of xbox cring so many tears so many. Dont like it dont buy it.
I won't buy it, and I have a feeling many others won't either. And, I'll tell the community at large why I won't buy it. It has nothing to do with "cring." It's about being a smart consumer. It's about avoiding a product that doesn't work the way I want it to, and getting the message out there about what I do and do not want in a product.
Quote: Ive had a XBL gold account for 9yrs paying my 50-60 bucks every year big deal.
I don't recall people complaining about the price of Live in this thread, but OK.
Quote: There have been 2 days from moving (and the random power outtage)where my xbox hasnt had internet.
Then you're abnormally lucky. You should buy some lotto tickets.
Quote: I havent been to a Gamestop or any gamestore in 3 yrs, I actually enjoy buying my games off "Games on demand" so i guess xbox1 caters to people like me.
Then buy it and enjoy it, and don't worry so much about how others feel about it.
Quote: You cant get good internet where u live? 5 words move and get google fiber.
The above is quite possibly the stupidest thing anyone has ever said in the history of the universe. There has to be an Achievement for that.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-17 15:04:54
I've put in some effort to explain my stance. You just respond in 5 words or less. I honestly think I could come back with an entire 4-year case study and you'd respond with "That's just your account."
Come up with an actual opinion and give it some substance please.
Says who? If they waited for it to go used and cheap why not just wait for it to go used and cheap again? All I hear from you is a lot of conjecture that seems to be based on your own opionions...
this particular response is based on conjecture... That was my point, Chaosprime has no reason to claim otherwise, just like I had no reason to claim otherwise. I really think you just have a problem with me and are camping my posts firing off your shitty "one sentence" responses. I'm flattered I matter that much to you, but c'mon.
As for the rest, they are my opinion, usually reconciled with what I've learned and read by reading and watching various interviews and papers put forth by developers and industry analysts.
Siren.Flavin
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-17 15:12:13
I've put in some effort to explain my stance. You just respond in 5 words or less. I honestly think I could come back with an entire 4-year case study and you'd respond with "That's just your account." Come up with an actual opinion and give it some substance please. Says who? If they waited for it to go used and cheap why not just wait for it to go used and cheap again? All I hear from you is a lot of conjecture that seems to be based on your own opionions... It is based on conjecture... That was my point, Chaosprime has no reason to claim otherwise, just like I had no reason to claim otherwise. I really think you just have a problem with me and are camping my responses firing off your shitty "one sentence" responses. I'm flattered I matter that much to you, but c'mon. So putting in "some" effort demands a response? lol... I don't really have to respond with anything else because it doesn't really warrant it... I was looking for you to change my mind on the subject and you haven't even come close...
That you think I would just come back and say "oh well that's just your account" when you present a 4-year case study is complete bull and idk, might be out of some misguided frustration or something... got too used to most everyone throwing a fit with ya about mocrosoft?
I have no problem with you at all... I have no idea who you are really lol... to me thought you're just spouting a lot of nonsense that, at least to me, you don't seem to know a lot about... more of the common anger and repition of what you're hearing recently coming from some parts of the gaming community... Think what you will though lol... doesn't bother me ^^
Bahamut.Scizor
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 396
By Bahamut.Scizor 2013-06-17 15:14:37
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »Suddenly saying someone is a hard working janitor is an insult? lol
To me, yes it is. As for information, i could post my contract but i owe no one here anything. Its a social forum so take it as it is lol. You want to believe me, that's fine, if you don't that's up to you. I see zero point in lying to anyone. Was only offering another angle to this but it seems all people want to do is be butthurt that they aint getting want they want. You know what, continue lol. I'm done with this thread. Off to work he goes!
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Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4305
By Cerberus.Senkyuutai 2013-06-17 15:17:57
Bismarck.Chaosprime said: »Suddenly saying someone is a hard working janitor is an insult? lol
To me, yes it is. As for information, i could post my contract but i owe no one here anything. Its a social forum so take it as it is lol. You want to believe me, that's fine, if you don't that's up to you. I see zero point in lying to anyone. Was only offering another angle to this but it seems all people want to do is be butthurt that they aint getting want they want. You know what, continue lol. I'm done with this thread. Only question worth asking to you is:
What was your position?
Because:
Positions bound by NDA prohibiting to disclose the position itself are very specific and are most of the time "lower" positions which have little to no impact.
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Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-17 15:20:30
So putting in "some" effort demands a response? lol... I don't really have to respond with anything else because it doesn't really warrant it... I was looking for you to change my mind on the subject and you haven't even come close...
That you think I would just come back and say "oh well that's just your account" when you present a 4-year case study is complete bull and idk, might be out of some misguided frustration or something... got too used to most everyone throwing a fit with ya about mocrosoft?
I have no problem with you at all... I have no idea who you are really lol... to me thought you're just spouting a lot of nonsense that, at least to me, you don't seem to know a lot about... more of the common anger and repition of what you're hearing recently coming from some parts of the gaming community... Think what you will though lol... doesn't bother me ^^
I don't know if you realize just how much your post confirms my suspicions.
Siren.Flavin
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4155
By Siren.Flavin 2013-06-17 15:21:02
So putting in "some" effort demands a response? lol... I don't really have to respond with anything else because it doesn't really warrant it... I was looking for you to change my mind on the subject and you haven't even come close... That you think I would just come back and say "oh well that's just your account" when you present a 4-year case study is complete bull and idk, might be out of some misguided frustration or something... got too used to most everyone throwing a fit with ya about mocrosoft? I have no problem with you at all... I have no idea who you are really lol... to me thought you're just spouting a lot of nonsense that, at least to me, you don't seem to know a lot about... more of the common anger and repition of what you're hearing recently coming from some parts of the gaming community... Think what you will though lol... doesn't bother me ^^ I don't know if you realize just how much your post confirms my suspicions. If you think it does then you probably have an issue with paranoia lol...
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2013-06-17 15:26:52
So putting in "some" effort demands a response? lol... I don't really have to respond with anything else because it doesn't really warrant it... I was looking for you to change my mind on the subject and you haven't even come close... That you think I would just come back and say "oh well that's just your account" when you present a 4-year case study is complete bull and idk, might be out of some misguided frustration or something... got too used to most everyone throwing a fit with ya about mocrosoft? I have no problem with you at all... I have no idea who you are really lol... to me thought you're just spouting a lot of nonsense that, at least to me, you don't seem to know a lot about... more of the common anger and repition of what you're hearing recently coming from some parts of the gaming community... Think what you will though lol... doesn't bother me ^^ I don't know if you realize just how much your post confirms my suspicions. If you think it does then you probably have an issue with paranoia lol...
Well, the Half-Minute delay between that response says more than any words ever could.
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