Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

/war is a huge dmg boost over DW Ime, give that a go with standard MA sets before trying to fit in cap dw in your sets.

I may be mistaken but iirc the comparisons you gave with /war vs /nin or dnc was you with a main dnc giving samba, which is always gonna push single wield over dw. Though unsure if /dnc is also enough to push it over.

Just personally always found DW to be better on any job that doesnt have access to haste samba, though in bsts case likely not the best idea to dw 2 axes due to the delays on both.

I compared /war to /Nin with someone else giving /dnc haste samba, not main dnc. Also compared /war with bst/dnc and bst giving themselves sub haste samba.

/war was ahead in both cases, real world not sims. Main dnc haste samba pushed /war higher but it was already ahead.

Dodik, did you happen to compare /WAR vs /DNC (single wield)? At this point, the only thing I can see that /WAR offers is Berserk and 12% DA (invalidated by Hoxne Ampulla), and Berserk is basically Rage 2.0. I would think single wield /DNC would be the way to go. I have never tried it in practice since Hoxne or at all, but would be interested in seeing a comparison. Even without Ampulla, I can't see /WAR w/o Samba being better than /DNC w/ Samba, but im curious to hear your experiences with the two, if you can share.

Burning a third of a ws every third mob adds up

If you got the full 90 seconds without moving target to target it'd be a different story

Not single wield with /dnc, no. When I did /dnc or /Nin, it was with DW. My /war tests were also *without /war JAs*. No berserk, no aggressor, no warcry.

The main benefit of single wield is you get fencer traits which bst gets natively. That pushes WS dmg higher. As long as tp speed can be close to DW, single wield with fencer will always do more dmg.

400tp bonus from fencer traits for bst. /war plays well with them since you get more DA from it, and then stack more DA/TA/QA on top of that to get better tp gain speed.

Yeah, this was kind of my point. You already get the benefit of Fencer with just single wield regardless of sub, Haste Samba just improves the swing speed. If under similar circumstances (DA rate, attack cap or w/e), then may as well sub DNC since WAR sub only really provides more attack and DA rate. I don't think that is what was giving your more DPS over time in your tests, it was probably the fencer pushing damage vs DW build's WS cadence at a similar TP value (accounting for Fencer's additional TP). I'm thinking SW /DNC is always the way to go for pure damage now?

You're all treating self haste samba as it if were free (such is the case as the other boons granted by /WAR, /DRG and so on) but in reality it costs at least 350tp every 90 seconds.

Now I'm sure there's plenty of situations where that is worth it, but there's many other where it doesn't synergyze well with the rythms of whatever activity you're doing, hence resulting in lower dps.

For me, personal taste I know, I just find the spendtp so often for such a short duration so annoying I prefer to stay away from it. Just personal preference though, as I stated.

Well, and we're also back to considering... what if someone else (BRD COR DNC etc.) does Samba?

Don't forget /DRG as an option. Especially for Hoxne Ampulla builds where /WAR DA is irrelevant, and any party compositions where you can get Samba from somebody else.

I should have qualified my statement by saying solo. If someone else is providing the Samba, DRG makes sense (though in Limbus/Segs, sometimes everyone fights their own mobs so you may not always get benefit of other people's Samba).

I don't mind the Samba upkeep TBH, most of the time you're just targeting and hitting WS button anyways. It keeps the job busy, where all you're really doing is ghetto Warrioring with a sheep anyways. When I was OHing Kraken Club, I always had enough TP so it synergized very well for maintenance and wasn't a hindrance for myself personally. The bigger thing for me wasn't necessarily the loss of 350TP, but the freedom to gear with better/different options in certain spots (cape, belt, hands). You are kinda "robbing Peter to pay Paul" in a sense, and maybe it's a wash at the end of the day, but that's just the awkwardness of BST in general. It doesn't have its own JA haste, so you either have to compensate for it in DW, a Samba of your own, someone else's, or ignore it. Pro/Con in all instances.

My testing was exactly this. Bst/Nin with someone else doing sub job samba. /war came out ahead by a lot. 15-25% a lot.

I don't see why you would drop 5-10% DA from /war depending on MLs, on top of lacking berserk and aggressor, to single wield with /dnc. Unless you are solo with no other source of haste samba, of course.

Would be interesting to see how /dnc and /war compare single wield, not something I tested.

They said it! Because of Hoxne Ampulla.
With that on the DA from /WAR loses all its charm (there's other nice parts about /WAR but BST already doesn't benefit from Fencer, then you "lose" DA as well, the rest of what remains might understandably look less appealing for people in that scenario)

/war is my favourite too, but when i solo (basically always) /dnc is just too convenient.
Especially these days where i am basically a Limbus rat, spectral jig and aoe heals to wake up my trusts are very handy

My main issue with going /war (or even /drg) is that i have a R30 Ikenga axe and it boosts the dmg by quite alot when using it as sub weapon, especially if using Naegling (wave 1&2 DynaD).

It is also the best choice for calamity spam with Tri-Edge, when i havent got the time to build 3000tp for Farsha's am3.

Not to mention that, once fully augmented, duty set gives a total of 360 accuracy (that's 110 more than 5/5 malignance for comparison) so I'm assuming naegling will be able to be used in harder content too.

I think its 12% DA at /50WAR. Berserk is 25% Attack Bonus, with 60% uptime, but it's not a gigantic bonus. BST gets Rage, Frenzied Rage, Corrosive Ooze just solo, so it still has decent attack without /WAR. Aggressor is 25 Accuracy, but only net +15 over /DNC when you compare the Accuracy Bonus trait of /DNC. WAR also gets Attack Bonus 1 trait, but that's a pitiful 10 attack, less than a level 1 Box Step (5% def down). There's pros and cons to both.


I wasn't saying "HOXNEALLTHETHINGS", but was offering a comparison of subs for BST, all things being considered.

Even without Hoxne Ampulla, /WAR boils down to 25% attack and 12% DA basically. If someone else is giving you Sambas and you are not hitting attack cap, those stats are useful. If you are attack capped, Berserk isn't doing anything. If you use Hoxne Ampulla, WAR sub is giving you nothing. /DRG offers a more potent damage boost, /WAR is a more broad spread on melee stats, /DNC offers wide utility in heals, steps, flourishes and Sambas, and /NIN is the sub when you can use shadows and set DW to 10~11 and be done with it. They all have uses, just varies on what situation is best based on other factors.

You can use it now, just eat sushi. Tandem Strike, Null accessories, you have enough accuracy most of the time. I'm just not sure where else you might want to use Savage Blade (it is very strong). I used it a few times in 8-Boss, and it's fine. But Spalirisos is pretty good for a 3-step SC in Limbus farms, and can use it in Sortie without walling anyone. I think that would be the gold standard, if you can get 1m/3.5m Galli

/drg would be my choice if you didn't need the 25% attack, for all the reasons Buukki said.

Comparing /drg's wsd traits to a 25% attack, wsd traits again, and /drg probably does more dmg in most circumstances.

I haven't got the ampulla and i won't get it, so the 12% DA /war provides can take you up to ...80% DA or around that mark?
That's the only reason why i sub /war, really.
And the diamond aspis helps keeping SC going on for those times DA doesn't proc

Save your orbs and burn them on Venus when campaign rolls around. May get it eventually (price is regularly dropping)

Keep in mind that if solo with trusts, Mayakov uses 5/5 merit strength Haste Samba (10% JA Haste). I'm willing to bet you can put together a better trust set with Mayakov and come /WAR or /DRG, than some other trust and /DNC.

I totally get the "Jigs are convenient in Limbus" argument, sometimes utility wins out. But there are so many other situations where I feel /DNC is overrated or unnecessary, in addition to being one of those people who doesn't love the constant 350tp to re-up Samba.

While he can use it, in my limited experience with trying him out, he never maintained it. Id much prefer /dnc than relying on him, I also picked diamond shield for my bonanza choice which pairs very nicely

I used to have Mayakov out all the time, i don't remember why i stopped, maybe because of saber dance?
In limbus i use Sylvie, Ulmia and KoH, for exp i add Qultada and Monbereaux (or joachim when i feel safe enough)

Personally beyond acc issues that come with being a trust he can be slow to upkeep it since he likes to stack steps, and also, like many melee trusts, likes to break SCs

Max potency Haste Samba just somewhat outweighs those last 2 issues, acc is usually what kept him out of my roster, usually taking qultada's spot unless i wanna slot him in for chaos then boot him out again

I vaguely remember trying /drg as well during my tests and /war came out ahead in dps, while /Drg had higher WS numbers.

I was ML30, so had the 12% DA from /war. If ampula obviously go /Drg. But I'm cheap frugal as hell so /war is my choice.